Kel Interview: Overcoming Stigmas

What if the bonds you formed during your darkest times became the pillars of your redemption? That's exactly what happened when Kel, my dear friend, and I first connected back in county jail, supported by the spiritual strength of our mothers. Now, as Kel stands on the cusp of freedom, we reflect on the profound lessons learned through his journey of incarceration and the resilience needed to transform those lessons into a legacy of hope and change. Our conversation is a heartfelt exploration of trust, growth, and the vital role family and community support play in overcoming the challenges of the criminal justice system.

As we discuss the unique struggles and opportunities faced by those in prison, we confront the mental health stigma that often silences and isolates men behind bars. Kel and I share personal experiences of breaking down barriers of pride and ego, emphasizing the importance of seeking mental health support during incarceration and after release. We offer insights into building financial stability and credit as cornerstones for success post-incarceration, underscoring the importance of using time wisely for self-improvement and planning for a future filled with hope and possibility.

Every journey of transformation requires a roadmap and trusted companions, and we aim to provide both in our discussion. By sharing practical advice and our own stories of growth, we encourage listeners to embrace their individuality and use their circumstances as a springboard for change. The power of family support and the impact of evolving roles within loved ones are key themes, as Kel prepares to reintegrate and continue his journey beyond the prison walls. Join us in celebrating the achievements and personal growth that define this new beginning.

Chapters

• 0:10 Reconnecting Through Incarceration
• 9:35 Building Trust and Success After Incarceration
• 17:30 Overcoming Mental Health Stigma
• 21:55 Journey to Self-Improvement in Incarceration
• 34:57 Incarceration, Family Support, and Growth
• 45:08 Podcast Network and Contact Information

Transcript

Remie: 0:10

Hey everybody, welcome back to season two of Lockdown to Legacy. I'm your host, Remy Jones, and from time to time I will be joined by my co-host, dj, who just so happens to also be my awesome sauce wife. I also have a couple of close friends that are still incarcerated who will be regular contributors and together we will bring you the real on dealing with the criminal justice system from multiple angles. A lot of what we share will be real experiences from both currently and formerly incarcerated people like myself, along with current events that affect those impacted by the legal system. So thank you for tapping in, thank you for sticking with us from season one. Now let's get to it. Hey, lockdown and Legacy fans, I want to thank you guys for sticking with us during our hiatus and I want to welcome you guys back to Season 2.

Remie: 1:14

This is our Episode 2. And we got a guest. This is one of my good friends. You know most of these guys are my friends from the inside, but this guy actually knew somewhat before I went to prison, but we'll get into that later in the episode. So he decided he wanted to do an interview. He is approaching release. He had previously served, I think, 11 years and then got out for a few years and, unfortunately, was one of those recidivism statistics, and so this time, having learned a lesson and experienced some growth in there, he decided that he wanted to share his story. So I'm much appreciative of him, and I hope you guys are too, and I hope you guys learn something or gain some insight from not only the success stories that we share, but also some of the ones who you know have a harder time or take a little longer to learn those lessons. Nonetheless, though, it's not about how long it takes us to get there. It's about the fact that we made it so without further ado.

Remie: 2:26

Here's my man, cal this call is from a drc correctional facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Utilization of an unapproved application and three-way calls to communicate are strictly prohibited and a violation of DRC policy. Thank you for using GTL. Thank you for using GTL.

Remie: 2:53

What's up, bro? How are you man? What's up with my bro? Ain't that much man, Ain't that much at all, Just, you know, trying to weather the cold.

Kel: 3:05

Man, listen, I just got up, maybe not too long ago. What woke me up was everybody, man, it's cold, it's cold, it's cold outside, it must be cold outside, but how you been, I'm hanging, I'm hanging, so, but how you?

Remie: 3:27

been, though I'm hanging. I'm hanging, so first off, you know I like to have people introduce themselves. I'll let everybody know. This is my good friend Kale. How long have we known each other, kale 16?.

Kel: 3:42

Man, we met in 2008, 2008, 2008, yep, so you know, uh, it was unfortunate situation, but at the same time, you know, sometimes an unfortunate situation, when utilized properly, can turn into a good thing. But, yeah, 2008, man.

Remie: 4:06

Yeah, so 2008,. You know, we were actually in the county jail, both fighting for our lives against this system that I ain't going to use no adjectives to describe. But yeah, we was in there and they're going through it, man. Yeah, we was in there and they're going through it, man. And we was in the same block and really didn't cross paths until we went on visit and our mothers actually linked up as support, spiritual support, and so you know, of course, how moms do. Oh, I met a lady, her son, in there. You need to go talk to him. Y'all need to lean on each other and stay strong. I'm like, yeah, don't worry about that in here. But you know, we did end up crossing paths and I mean it was cool. It was cool.

Remie: 4:58

We did kind of look out for each other in there. I was new to the prison, you know. So once I realized again I'm about to go down, you know it was kind of like a big brother situation, you know, gave me some advice and stuff, let me know what I was about to be, you know what to expect, and I appreciated that. And then, you know, we, we exchanged information and we both start you know our separate paths um, to doing time, and once again it was like, yeah, we exchanged information, a letter or two might have been written, but it was mainly our mothers that kind of kept it going. And then I mean, I went to what? Toledo? And you, um, I don't know where you went first.

Kel: 5:45

I went. After I left the county, I went to Lorain and then from Lorain I went to Lake Erie and then from Lake Erie I went to Grafton Right. But what I wanted to say, as I was listening to you when we met in the county right, this is a true story. Anybody that knows me for real knows that I'm a real private county. Right, this is a true story. Anybody that knows me for real knows that I'm a real private person, right. So when you said the whole thing about I became like a big brother and everything I normally don't do that right, like when you're in the county and you see somebody else, at that point it's every man for themselves. Facts, facts.

Remie: 6:25

Facts, because you ain't trying to have nobody's problems become yours, and I think I talked about it in another episode. Like prison, snitches is real. There's dudes in there that'll listen to all your stories. Get close and go talk to their lawyer like all right. Yeah, I got the scoop.

Kel: 6:40

Yeah, get me. Yeah, get me out of here. I got some information for you, but I don't know what it was about you. I think it was. I think we played a game of chess and as we were playing a game of chess, I was listening to you and one of the things that I picked up about you was that, alright, the young man got a good head on his shoulders. So as long as I know that you're young man, got a good head on his shoulders, so as long as I know that you're somebody that has a good head on your shoulders, I'll talk to you. And in the process of listening to you, I'm like, all right. And then that's what opened up the door for us to even start talking in the first place, because if he was one of them other ones, I'd have just kept it moving.

Remie: 7:23

Yeah, we call them crash dummies for anybody who don't know. County jail full of crash dummies. Dudes that I mean. To be honest, it's just so boring in there. And then you're dealing with this loss of freedom so you're angry. I literally know dudes that would go get in a fight because they was bored. They would go steal somebody's stuff brazenly, broad daylight no sneaking about it just because they want somebody to come find them, or they, you know, flood these toilets.

Remie: 7:53

Try to flush their whole blanket down their toilet so the COs would come in there with the riot gear, like it's. You definitely got to be careful who you hit your cart to in the county man or in prison in general, because it's easy to let somebody in and it's hard to get somebody out.

Kel: 8:10

That's the fact. Once they're in your business, oh my God, they feel like they're entitled to you, to your presence, your energy, and at some point it's actually better to just not know anybody. Just keep to yourself, that's the best way. Yeah, but the other part, when he was talking about our moms listen, true story I was speaking with my mom the other day and she was asking about your mom, and I just go to show like our moms have been like a true catalyst between us, because I just kept thinking, think about it. I'm like if our moms didn't keep in contact, I don't know if we would have kept in contact, because once you went your direction and I went my direction, our communication stopped. But we were always in contact with our, with our mothers, and they were always dropping.

Kel: 9:01

That hit. You know, yeah, someone still asked about you. You want to know where you at. You know, yeah, someone still asks about you. You want to know where you at. You know someone still asks about you. And it just kept that whole communication going and then we ran into each other again. It was just like like we never left each other because we were always still connected somewhere.

Remie: 9:21

Yeah, and I remember too, like um, reaching out to my mom, and I had reached out to you a few times. Like I said, we talked back and forth a few times. But when I say a few times, we're talking about maybe three times over. At that point, like what, six years, five, six years? So you know it was hey, just basically acknowledging you still exist, hope, everything cool. You know, basically, you know, by that time I worked from like oh, this, you know I'm fresh, I ain't never been to adult prison. I'm moving now, I'm in my own lane, I got my own stuff going. So I'm like I ain't really looking out for nobody, like if I seen, I seen. Looking out for nobody, like if I seen him, I seen him. But um, when it actually even when it, um, even when you actually did come, it was a while until we were in the same block. But when we were in the same block it was like it was basically like county again, like the comfort level. You know we been together, you know that's my brother.

Kel: 10:28

Yeah, and I appreciated that, and that's where. That's where. That is where I did, too. You know, I'm very. It was in the process of all that. We became family, though, and that is. That's the rarity in prison within itself. All right, I look at you like my little bro.

Remie: 10:44

I'm telling you, even the fact that we knew each other from county really don't matter too much, because what we're talking about here is we're talking about the fact that, yeah, we know each other. But even then I knew dudes. Well, I came across dudes that I had met throughout my life, whether it was high school, middle school, whatever and they come up to me hey, what's up, bro? And I'm like nigga, I don't know. You Like calm down, because for real I don't know what you off into and I don't want your problems to become my problems. But when we had linked up again, it was like dang, like finally somebody I can trust to talk about stuff with.

Remie: 11:29

You know, stuff going on that you don't really get a chance to acknowledge and give the proper attention to because you ain't got nobody to talk to. You cannot I don't care what nobody say go down to mental health, talk to nobody out there. You know you can't just meet nobody and just get to opening up out there. You know you, you can't just meet nobody and just get to opening up. So finally, when it's stuff going on at home and all this, you like damn, bro, like pull the box out, let's talk, because otherwise you would just keep it in and you know you ain't really working on yourself otherwise, you know that's a fact.

Kel: 12:02

So so you remember, um, we were at Grafton and we were in the back day room and I think I was getting ready to leave um and be released, but before I was explaining to you how I built my credit up, you know, um, and essentially just started rebuilding everything, that conversation that we had I never talked to anybody else about just on the basis of it was like, oh all, right, so in the end prison is that right? It does. I hate every minute of it. But, as you know, I'm one of those people to where it's like, if I have to be here, I, by the decisions that I made, that brought me here. If I have to be here, I have to make this count for something.

Kel: 12:54

And so while I was in there, you know, took the credit classes and you know all the programming and everything. But just on the side, you know, I pretty much figured out how to. Since I had family support sending me money to put on the books that I can get to be what I need, I figured out a way to do my credit off of it. And then I shared that information with you because I'm, like my ideology, became a person that's returning home to society needs to have a good credit score right, because with that you're able to purchase a vehicle which is your reliable transportation to get more from work.

Kel: 13:36

You know you're trying to get a house or somebody. That's for substance. You don't want to live in the hood if you're trying to get away from the nonsense, but if you got a poor credit score, poor employment and poor transportation, your options are limited. And so once I realized that it just so away from the nonsense, but if you got a poor credit score, poor employment and poor transportation, your options are limited. Once I realized that, it just so happened that I figured that out around the time that we linked up in Grafton. I was sharing that information with you because I wanted you to succeed. You know what I mean.

Remie: 14:09

And I appreciate that too, because I actually did put that to good know what I mean. And I appreciate that too, cause I actually did put that to good use. I mean between you and my cousin when I came home he actually did like credit repair and stuff, but I mean between the two of y'all putting that seed. I instantly started working on my credit. I didn't really have the time to get to it while I was in there, cause I got out like what Nine months after you or something. But when I get out I was like straight to it and I mean within the first year I was well up into the you know, the 700s, mid 700s, like. If you in there and you can, if you got the support on the outside to help you start building credit as soon as possible, throw you on some of the trade lines if they're responsible with them. It matters, and for your kids too. For your kids it matters more than you think for you to have a lengthy credit and I appreciate that, bro, I thank you.

Kel: 15:07

For sure, for sure. But that just goes back to the journey of incarceration in comparison to the ideology in prison is you don't get close to people, you don't talk to people, you keep to yourself. But then there are those little gems, those little moments when people cross your path and it's just like you know what. They're all big mistakes. Anybody got a story. But there are still civil people, you know, that have just made a mistake. That's the reality of, and this is my opinion, that's the reality of prison, right, don't get me wrong. There are some messed up people, right, that deserve to actually be behind bars. Right, I agree with that 100%. And then there are people, good people, that just make a mistake, right?

Remie: 15:59

Yeah, I met some of the smartest, most talented people that I ever met in my life in prison, like facts for real. Like like facts for real and um, I learned some of the most valuable lessons in my life from people in prison, you know, um, which is why I like doing this because I like giving that um firsthand account, like people still in prison, people have come home from prison like share your experience, because really, society just paints us as we're a bunch of people behind a fence, working out and ready to come out here and reoffend, like just all we waiting for is a chance to make a victim out of somebody. Right, you know, and that's really not the case, like it's really not Sometimes, most of the time, yeah, Most of the time, most of the time and, truth be told, all right.

Kel: 16:55

So this is just, you know, just being forthright and open for a second. So you know, I had got out and the whole credit thing I was talking about, everything was perfect, got out, bought cars, bought houses, started businesses, everything was going great, right, and then everything blew up in my face Self-inflicted, of course, because at the core of it all, one of the things that I did not address was my emotional baggage. Right, and, like you had said earlier, we don't talk to mental health. People don't talk to you as males. Right, we're taught to be like these strong people. I can handle it, right, um, but mental health is a real thing and I hadn't come to grips with my emotional baggage and, as a result, you know, I ended up getting into an altercation and ended up coming back Not proud of it.

Kel: 18:01

But it was at that moment in life that I just kind of said you know what I'm tired. So you know, I come home, everything is great, I'm doing good, and then, boom, here I am. I come home, everything is great, I'm doing good, and then boom, here I am. I said this has to stop. So one of the things that I had to break out of was that adage of we don't talk to mental health. I finally had to just embrace it and say you know what, hey, I need some mental health, I need some help.

Remie: 18:27

There are people that want to go to mental health in prison.

Remie: 18:32

I ain't going to lie man, I would have loved to have gone over to mental health and gotten help, but in prison it seems like even in medical, nobody's looking out for you as an inmate, even the medical professionals. It's really us against them. It's not always unjustified. I mean, like we said, there's some people that's in there and they did something wrong. They're trying to get back on their feet and learn from it, and it's other people in there that are straight scumbags. They're trying to get over.

Remie: 19:04

So yeah, when you go to mental health, when you go to medical, first thing they do is think oh, you're just trying to get some drugs, you're just trying to. You know you're trying to get on the mental health caseload so you can get some drugs, get some SSI, finesse the system, you know, which really makes it hard for the people. That's like yo, I need help in there, tell them a bunch of personal stuff and then had a CO back on the block with all your information. You know, like all this privileged personal information, and because the CO has to be in the medical wing, he done heard all of it, or they done talked about it. He done came back, told another CO. Now you looking like boo-boo.

Remie: 19:46

You know You're like what the fuck? Why did I even go down there and they ain't help me? They ain't help me anyway and it's weird because the inmate wants to get on the caseload. The inmate wants to get on the caseload so they can get medication, they can get SSI. Whatever the staff side, they either don't want to give you medication or they're like fuck it, but I'm on a case, so so like you fighting, but you don't even know which way you going, they like all right, we'll give you some medication. You like, nah, I don't, I don't think I need that. Next thing, you know you walking around like a zombie cause they didn't put you on all this. You know craziness, back from taking meds, psych meds, in prison.

Kel: 20:29

They tried to give it to him. I don't want the medication.

Remie: 20:33

It's real hard trying to fight that battle man of. I need to talk to somebody, I need some help, but I can't trust the system. And then when you get out, unfortunately you got that residual like I can't trust the system when really you should be going to try to find some mental health, whether it's just a simple therapist, whether it is some type of medication to help with anything. You got going on depression, anxiety, whatever. But I mean, after going through the system, you're like I ain't taking that shit, I don't need nobody, I ain't messing with y'all. And really when you first get out, that's the time them. You like I ain't taking that shit, I don't need nobody, I I ain't messing with y'all.

Remie: 21:10

And really when you first get out, that's the time, that's the best time to seek mental health, uh treatment, because it's basically all covered by the state. So for anybody listening, if you need that help, like reach out, especially once you get out, because you know nine times out of ten you didn't get that help inside. Get, especially once you get out, because you know nine times out of ten you didn't get that help inside. Get that help when you get out, man, and not just for getting on the caseload, not just for getting SSI and trying to finesse the system, but really try to work through your demons and your baggage so you can move on. So I'm guessing that's what you did, right?

Kel: 21:50

Yeah, go ahead so you can move on. Can I give a disclaimer? I'm guessing that's what you did right yeah, go ahead.

Kel: 21:55

I'm going to give a disclaimer to all that are listening right, get out of your own way, right, meaning? I know we have the stereotype of males to. You know, we're men, we can handle our problems. Sometimes we can't, and it's okay to admit that we can't. None of us are, you know, just that strong that we can just do it on our own. It's impossible. And my advice is, you know, don't let our pride get in the way, don't let your ego get in the way. You know, accept the help because in the end, it's let your ego get in the way. You know. Accept the help because in the end, it's only going to make you better. And I'm speaking that from experience, because I was that person that let my ego get in the way all the time and saying you know I'm not going, I got it. I don't need anybody telling me what to do, I'll figure it out. Just do it. You know it's going to help. Get the help. It's okay, get the help.

Remie: 22:54

Yeah, that is not a sign of weakness or nothing. Man, go ahead. It's cool to lean on people, man, ask for help, admit when you're not okay, because the baggage that you got going on, and you know another stereotype of us man is we are, we want to be leaders, so we trying to go and lead somebody else's life and we still ain't got rid of all this baggage and stuff that we carrying around. Like you, you, you about to mess somebody else's life up. You know. Yeah, that's that's great. Uh, that's a great disclaimer, because one of the questions I had was what is one of the hardest lessons that you've learned over the years? And that fits perfectly. So, uh, to to piggyback, though. Like what? What is some good advice that you would give, like a younger you or somebody fresh coming into the system now, at a young age?

Kel: 23:54

If they're coming in the system right now. You know, fresh out, I mean fresh in you know the first thing that I would tell them don't try to rush into getting to know people. Settle into the reality of where you are right. You know there's that mythology that you know you got to click up there. You know that there's strength in numbers, there's strength in individuality. That's where the strength is right. That's the first piece of advice.

Kel: 24:26

Second piece of advice I would give them is just I know there's the cliche of why is it that everybody that goes to prison finds God. If they really wanted to find God and all this stuff, they would have done that on the street. My response to that is it is what it is. However, you find them, whenever you find them, wherever you find them, just find something that's going to bring some sort of stability, some sort of higher accountability that can begin to set some sort of path in your life, though. Um, next thing I would tell them the hardest thing for us to do is admit that we were wrong or did something right. Um, acceptance. You know we got to accept the reality of it is what it is. I'm here, you know. I understand there are some innocent people that are locked up. And then there's the reality that we've all done something to end up where we are.

Kel: 25:34

Next thing aggressively set a plan. You know, don't let the time you know just be wasteful, right whether it be go get some education or get some mental health, or get some mental health, go get some vocational programming. If you don't have a GED, go get your GED. Go do something productive, because if you just come in without some sort of plan and you just waste that time, that just channels to when you get out as well. Now you've done nothing in here here, you've done nothing out there, but if you progress in here, it'll transfer out there. Now will it be an easy transition with everything that you've done as far as per se, your mental health and programming and self-awareness and just getting yourself together? It's not going to be easy, but you are a thousand steps ahead when you do return. You have one minute remaining.

Kel: 26:42

By going ahead and taking advantage of the resources than you would if you didn't.

Remie: 26:50

I used to say that all the time, man, if you wait until your release to start working on yourself, you're way far behind. You're bound to fail for real. If you wait until you get out, oh, I'm going to get my shit together when I get out. No, it's too late, bro. I'll see you back on the next bit. I got in an argument with administration about stuff that I would not do. That they wanted me to do because I was like yo, I'm working on myself, and they had a hard time accepting that. But that's all right. They accepted it in the end and I think it worked out.

Kel: 27:26

So here's a reality that I do want to share, right about the prison system itself. The reality is, if you think about the prison system, you think about staff, right, those that work here in the institution. Their job security is based on the actual incarceration of men and women. So there's a double-edged sword of saying, yes, they're here to help you and then the other side is they're here to destroy you, because if they actually help fix, actually help fix a population of individuals that society considers miscreant and detrimental to society, but if they actually fix that percentage of people, then that means that they would be out of a job.

Remie: 28:22

Oh yeah, they're going to work themselves out into unemployment.

Kel: 28:26

Exactly. That is a general consensus that people have to be really aware of. Yes, they're hired to help us, but they really don't want to help us, because now you have to realize that this is their likelihood, right, that's the reality of it. However, that's why you, as an individual, have to take it upon yourself to fix yourself Right, and what I was about to say earlier was the minute that they see you actually trying to fix yourself and like really truly committed Not all of them, but you have some staff then they'll buy into you trying to fix yourself Right. Then they really make the resources available to you. That's right.

Kel: 29:11

On this incarceration that I'm on right now um, I came in during covid and so there was nothing going on, but when I got here, it was like I started making my plan, and the first thing that I said that I want to do is I want to get into the barber school, I want to get into some type of educational program in exactly where I said earlier, and so I had signed up. Even though the stuff wasn't even available yet, I still signed up for it. I signed up for the barber college and, you know, through the powers that be the sanctions that were on for COVID, as far as the no movement and things of that nature. That stuff was lifted. And when they lifted that, that made it available for us to be able to go to school and everything. And as soon as they opened it up, as soon as they opened it up, I was able to get into the first class in Barber School. I completed Barber College Great and I knew I was getting ready to complete Bar college. I had signed up for college.

Kel: 30:14

So as I finished up barber school, I got into uh business administration in order to get my associates in business got that and because of the field that I pretty much isolated myself, that I wanted to work in, I knew that I needed to take, you know, dot training. I needed to take OSHA training. So I went ahead and did that and got my certifications and those. So, but the more that I did those things, the more that my case managers and unit managers were like hey, you know, we see, you know on your or as or, we see you doing x, y and z. You know you can also do this next thing. You know I was signed up with uh, the us department of agriculture, to take um green literacy programming.

Kel: 31:05

So you have to take those necessary steps to fix yourself. Now that's just from the programming side. But, as I mentioned, I finally gave in and said I need some mental health help. So I reached out to the mental health people and, fortunately enough, I met a good counselor and I was able to talk to him. And I was able to talk to them and I was able to get some things off my chest that I had been carrying all my life. And you know now, once you complete all those steps, you've set up a recipe for success so that when those doors do finally open up, that's saying that it's the perfect science or recipe, but at least you are a thousand steps ahead for success than I would have been had I just did nothing.

Remie: 31:52

Yeah, that's great. And you're right, man, about the staff. They're not buying into your dream. They've seen a million people come through them doors and try to sell a dream, so they're not buying in until your actions say, man, you're really trying to change. And it's not just one program, two programs, but like the whole way you move got to change. Every priority that you got got to shift.

Remie: 32:19

You know, I remember when that happened for me. I remember trying to get into what was it? The diesel mechanics program? And they were like ah, like, ah, yeah, no, we ain't trying to, you know. But there's, I was like all right, it's cool, it's a waiting list, I'll be on the waiting list, put me on. I was like but put me on a waiting list for welding also, and put me on a waiting list for this and that and um, and for college. So I started going to college for a communications degree. But afterwards, all those waiting lists that I was on, like, all of a sudden they like oh, the diesel mechanics came up. Okay, cool, I'm going to stay in college and I'm going to do diesel mechanics.

Remie: 32:57

So I dropped down to like three classes and they was like well, you can't do that, why not? So I did it, passed the diesel mechanics Like, alright, I want my CDL. They like oh well, you, because of the nature of your crime, they love to say that shit. They love to say that you know, because of the nature of your crime, we don't want to let you go outside the fence. I'm like I go outside the fence every day to go to diesel mechanics. I ain't got no tickets. I ain't got no, nothing Like what y'all. So now I gotta hunt down who to talk to. Once I talk to the right person, they like oh yeah, don't even worry about it, I'm gonna get you in there. I do the, I do the um, the cdl. At that point it wasn't nothing I could ask for that I wouldn't get. I want to do this program.

Remie: 33:41

At one point I was in like I was in um. I was in college. I was in the um, the, the digital design, graphic design. I was in c digital design, graphic design. I was in CDL. I was in all these different things.

Remie: 33:53

At one time People were like, bro, how you doing that? I'm like I just let them know I ain't taking no, I'm not taking no. I got to go home and I remember some dudes over in Lorain got caught bringing their cell phones and stuff, so they fired all of them, took them all to the hole under investigation and they just called me like hey, I'm in finals, I'm trying to write my finals and stuff. And they're like hey, we changed your job. You got to go over there and clean the visit room over there. I'm like no, they're like what you mean? No, I'm like no, like I'm a student. That I'm like no, Like I'm a student, that's my job. They're like all right, well, you know, if you don't, you can go to the hole. I was like well, you want to pack my stuff or you want me to pack my stuff, because if I'm not about to get my schooling done and I'm going to go to the hole, like either way, I'm not getting my way. So we go ahead and make this the hard way. And they're like man, I need to talk to the case manager. He ain't coming in until tomorrow.

Remie: 34:49

Bro, I went and cleaned the room, I did my homework while I was over there and the first thing in the morning I was out there to see the case manager. I was like yo, I need to let you know that I quit. He was like oh, you can't quit. I was like no, you don't understand, I'm not quitting. I already quit like I'm a student. Hey, dude, look at me. Like what the fuck man Like? So I mean, we gonna get this bed, move out the way, because I already told them they can pack my stuff. I'm good, I'm ready. They like ah, man, well, you take that away. They can't threaten you with going to the hole, like I'm already in prison. I'm trying to work on myself. You're in my way of becoming a better person and think about that for a second.

Kel: 35:28

I don't mean to interrupt, but just think about that for a second. How do you go to jail in jail? That was always a philosophy that you got to be a really ignorant person. To go to jail in jail, my bad, go ahead.

Remie: 35:39

No, no, you're good. You got to be a really ignorant person to threaten somebody to go to jail in jail, but for you to fall for it at the same time is equally just asinine, because I'm like, so you're going to move me from one part of the prison to another part of the prison, but I'm still going to be in prison, right, cool, let's do it Right. I mean, I don't know, but anyway, that was just my little go ahead and vent thing. But to bring this all around though, we did the time, we made the best of the time. I'm proud of you for using your time better this time around, man, because you know, previously it was bit mode and this time it seemed to be just from day one, preparing, you know, and focusing on what was more important, which was working on yourself mental health, family, what's that? Yeah.

Kel: 36:38

What was different for me this time is the other incarceration, because I didn't want to accept that I was in prison. I didn't want to accept that I was receiving discipline or on time out or punishment. So I made the incarceration fun. You know I was doing this, doing that, getting into this, getting into that. You know, this time around I sat down and took it all in, like, oh, this is a punishment, this is real. I did something for me to be here and I made this time hell on purpose. I allowed the negativity. I I allowed myself to feel the negativity this time right, because when I walk out of here, I hate this place so much that that's the leading factor in my decisions, that I hate and have a disgust for this place so much that every decision I make is designed to prevent me from being in a position to be in a place that I hate, which is something I didn't do in the past.

Kel: 37:48

And another thing that I wanted to add we can't forget about the family element, that family support right, and that is the most critical thing. A lot of us don't have family support. My mother supported me. My aunt and uncle supported me. My wife she supported me. How'd that go? Uncle supporting me, my wife, she's supporting me, so how'd that go?

Kel: 38:14

But that family support, you know, I I gotta give the thanks you know to them. If you have it, cherish it and recognize that us being away from our families impacts their ability to grow, because they have essentially put their lives on hold because of our statistics right, so they're waiting for us to come home with level heads and sane heads so that we can become a part of that family unit again and everything get back on track. So that's the other thing to keep in mind. Like, while you're here, recognize that your family, especially if they're supporting you. Let that be the guiding factor to your decision-making of how can I help benefit my family when I come home and hurt them again. I just wanted to put that in there too, but yeah.

Remie: 39:02

We often forget that we're missing from our families while we're in prison. We often just like we on the phone and we thinking like we still in the mix and that's nice, you know. It's nice that they allow us to think that for real. But, to be honest, you need to understand that you went from a leader of your household to another dependent. You don't run shit, so get that in your head and that's a hard pill to swallow for real. But then also, um, for your family, man, it's nice and they need to understand that you are an alpha and you are away from the pack. They gotta open up room for you to come back in so things flow smoothly.

Remie: 39:43

So there's not this power dynamic because they've been holding it down without you. They have become the alpha in the house and now it's this like okay, where can I pick up? Let's work together, because a lot of dudes I seen it, man they come back and they like it's my shit? Like nah, bruh, it's really not. But okay, I'm gonna let you think that until problems happen, which they inevitably will, you know right. But yeah, um, you know you, you at the end now you, you. Well, I hate using that term you're not at the end. You, you coming up on release because I tell people this ain't the end. This, this is the beginning. This is the beginning the everything you do in there that we just talked about preparing. That's the prequel, like we ready for game day now, and congratulations on that.

Kel: 40:36

I appreciate that, bro.

Remie: 40:38

Congratulations on where you've grown to in preparation for it.

Kel: 40:44

Man, forget about me. Congratulations to you. I don't want to let it go unnoticed. Right, I've been watching you all this time. I've watched you succeed as a family man. I've watched you succeed as a businessman. I've watched you succeed as just an individual, from that dude that I met in 2008, right to here. It is 2025, right, you know we've kept in contact all this time, but I'm inspired by you, believe it or not, right? But that just goes back to 2008, when I said this young man has a good head on his shoulder. Right, when you see somebody that has a good head on their shoulder, you got to empower that individual. You got to empower it, because all it takes is to get up. I've been watching you at the wife and kids and houses and businesses. You're doing your thing. You're staying out of here. That's commendable. I got to give you your flowers, too, though. Keep up the good work, man. I'm proud of you. Thanks, man, thanks.

Remie: 41:49

Keep up the good work, man. I'm proud of you. Thanks, man. Thanks, that means a lot, and I just had a conversation with somebody about this man that recognizing that it's people in there that are using me as an example and inspiration is, in itself, an inspiration for me to keep doing good, because I know that not only do I have a lot to lose out here, but I could potentially fuck up the role that I play in all these other people's lives. So, yeah, thanks, man. Thanks for that recognition.

Kel: 42:26

For sure you do. Keep it up, man.

Remie: 42:30

I'll see you soon. Yeah, I will, man, and I'll be here for you, bro. Like you know, I'm always trying to give some game for free, man, all the hard earned lessons that I learned, cause I'm not telling you that it was a straight line up, it definitely was not, but it'll be a chance to give some of that game that you gave me. Give it back, you know For sure, only to the wide, so you got any closing thoughts. Man, you got any closing thoughts you want to end it off with?

Kel: 43:02

Closing thoughts. Man, first thing about prison is don't come to prison. If whatever element out there that would even lead you to here, change it, get rid of it, slow your life down, but if you do have to come, make the best out of it. Make your time count. I'm happy. It's an unfortunate situation but I know that I'm light years ahead and I feel that I'm ready to be successful, to take care of my family, and I'm glad that I have influential people like yourself in my life, keeping my circle small. And I'm just waiting for that door to open up so I can go ahead and do what's planned. Don't come to me, great man.

Remie: 43:54

As always, man, because I love to talk and give my two cents. I'm going to give my little two cents to people out there man that's going through it, or people that's supporting people going through it and that's before you can make any type of great change or before you can make change in somebody else, you first got to change the things that define them. So when you say that you focus on success, you can't be successful until you define success. Remember when we was in the streets, we wanted to be successful, and successful was getting a bottle, getting the girls, getting the weed, getting the move and how we was moving. That was successful to us. So you couldn't tell us we were not successful and that we needed to straighten up. So you know, work on the foundations. That's all I'm going to say.

Kel: 44:48

I agree with you 100%.

Remie: 44:52

All right, man, all right, and with that we're going to wrap this one up.

DJ: 45:08

The Lockdown to Legacy podcast is proud to be a part of the Buzzsprout Podcast Community Network. Audio engineering is done by our very own Remy Jones. You can reach out to us with any feedback, questions, comments or share the love by emailing stories at lockdown2legacycom. Stories at lockdown2 to legacycom. You can reach out there, too, for a free sticker, and you can find us on Instagram and Twitter with the handle at lockdown to legacy and on Facebook at the lockdown to legacy podcast. Please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. Thanks for listening.