Warren's Wisdom: Evolution of the Hustler's Mindset

When Remie and Warren sat out to record this episode, they couldn't shake the feeling that they were about to uncover some profound truths. From the confines of a prison cell to the heights careers , the hustler's mentality can be a powerful force for transformation. Their conversation traverses the rocky terrain of personal evolution, where the grit and determination honed behind bars can fuel a future of legitimate success. They share Their own tales of maintaining the hustle without crossing into darkness, stressing the importance of a balanced life even when ambition runs high.

Our colleague Warren joins us to unravel the complex tapestry of personal growth under duress. They dissect the journey from inmates' initial struggles to their quest for knowledge, each step a deliberate move away from high-risk schemes and toward constructive pursuits. They dive deeply into the stories that shaped their sense of financial literacy, responsibility, and maturity, revealing the hard-earned wisdom that now guides them. As they tell it, the hustle isn't just about survival; it’s about preparing to thrive in the world that awaits beyond the prison gates.

As the episode unfolds, they don’t shy away from the raw moments that define their transition from hustlers to mentors. Their personal anecdotes lay bare the lessons they've learned in valuing the hard-earned dollar and teaching the next generation to do the same. They affirm the power of contentment over complacency, underscoring how true growth often means putting people before possessions. Join us on this intimate exploration, where the currency of choice is character, and the investment is in a future grounded in integrity and wisdom.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

Welcome to Lockdown to Legacy stories from the inside out. I'm your host, remy Jones.

Speaker 2: 0:25

And I'm co-host Debbie Jones. We are a husband and wife team here to bring you the real life stories, experiences and questions around the American criminal justice system. We do advise discretion with this podcast. I think we should put that out there first and foremost. Yes, we are going to talk about experiences that happen inside the prison system, outside of prison systems. We will use language that might be offensive, but we intend to keep it real. And if that's not for you, we totally understand, but please do what's best for your listening ears.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Oh, we're about to keep it real, son. Our goal of this podcast is to share the inside realities of the American prison and criminal justice system, from pre-charges all the way to post-release, from the voices of those who've experienced it firsthand, including me.

Speaker 2: 1:12

That's right, let's get into it.

Speaker 3: 1:31

What's up, all my legacy fam. Welcome back to another episode of Lockdown of Legacy. Of course I'm your host, remy Jones, and this week we got another episode of Warrant's Wisdom, so of course it'll be a call Me and my guy, warren. Tons of advisement dudes, just a wealth of wisdom, hence the name of it. This week we wanted to revisit one of our older episodes and talk about that hustler's mentality. We did the episode about hustles in prison, which was more in-depth on what all hustles are available and what guys generally do to survive in there. Because this week we kind of just have a concept about the, a conversation about the mentality of hustling in prison and kind of the development over time, how it changes Me. Personally, I feel like the hustler's mentality is not necessarily a bad thing. I generally still hold on to a lot of that, a lot of that mentality and a lot of skills that I developed as a hustler in my now legit life. And I feel like we did that episode about grit. So it kind of ties into that.

Speaker 3: 2:46

But I'm not going to sit here and yet man, appreciate you guys for tuning in. Please check out our website, man. I'm trying to build that up. It's still in the works, but leave me some feedback. Let me know what you think. What else Also hit me up on social media? Tell me some of these topics that you guys want to hear about. If you got questions, especially if you got questions directed at Warren or you got questions directed at Wise, they've expressed their desire to give you guys feedback directly. So, like I said, hit us up.

Speaker 3: 3:24

Facebook the Lockdown the Legacy, podcast. Instagram Lockdown the Legacy, twitter Lockdown the Legacy and email stories at lockdownthelegacycom. The website is lockdownthelegacycom, so feel free to go there. Hit us up. If you guys want to leave donations. There's a place where you can do that on there. If you want to leave any type of feedback, you can do it directly on the website, and we got the episode library. It's in the works, it's growing, so just be sure to utilize that. Check it out, all right. So that's it for the call and I hope you guys enjoy it.

Speaker 4: 4:10

This is a prepaid debit call from.

Speaker 4: 4:12

Warren an inmate at the Grafton Correctional Institution To accept this call. Press zero To refuse this call. Hang up or press one To prevent calls from this. This call is from a DRC Correctional facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Utilization of an unapp, viruses and freeway calls to communicate are strictly prohibited and a violation of PRC policies. Thank you for using GTL To prevent calls from this facility. This call is from a D RC Correctional facility as such to monitoring and recording. It has a 프로 that you have an unapproved application and three weight calls to communicate are strictly prohibited and a violation of DRC policy. Thank you for using GTO. Thank you for using GTO.

Speaker 3: 5:02

What's up, brother? What's going on, bro? How are you? I'm doing well, I bought yourself. Oh man, you know I'm doing all right, just working like a dog man, just working like a dog.

Speaker 5: 5:13

No, I read that he was like man. I'm doing this much time and this is like man. This is don't have no time off.

Speaker 3: 5:19

Pretty much, pretty much.

Speaker 5: 5:22

So what's the reason for the grind?

Speaker 3: 5:25

You know I'm just trying to get refocused. You know, recenter knows some of the goals that I had that kind of got a little lax. You know, not lax, but other goals end up taking presidents. So just trying to pick back up in order to do that, you got to get some of this stuff that I put on my plate off my plate, you know. Yeah, so it's. I'm not going to say it's easy, but it's very lucrative to pick up time For people that don't know. I've been basically working like five and six day work weeks alternating, which is why a lot were eight, 12 hour days too.

Speaker 3: 6:07

So it's definitely a lot, but you know it's. I mean it could potentially like just by picking up two days it could potentially double what I bring home in a work week. So I mean just trying to try to grind hard, get ahead, you know, renew some of that, some of that hustle, some of that grit that I had when I first came home.

Speaker 5: 6:35

Yeah, but have you accepted? That is not like when you first came home.

Speaker 3: 6:39

Oh yeah, you came home.

Speaker 5: 6:40

You was by yourself.

Speaker 3: 6:41

For sure, For sure, but also accepted that. You know this is a we, this is for us, not for me. Oh yeah, so you know it's, we talked about it. You know we made a plan. It's not something I'm about to do for a long time. I just figured if I could do it for, like, for a month, you know then it'll be about that.

Speaker 5: 7:03

You had a Debbie feel about it, but you said you just talked about it.

Speaker 3: 7:07

Well, debbie, she focused on PhD. You know it's push time. You know she graduated in December, so she's trying to write that dissertation.

Speaker 5: 7:17

OK, Dr Jones.

Speaker 3: 7:18

Right, right. So she got to spend all her time writing. I'm like, why wouldn't I just go to work then? What am I going to do? I mean, I could go and have a social life. But I'm like, nah, I'm all right. You know I get off at four. So by the time I get off, you know that's when my kids come in home from school. So it's not like I'm out of their life by working more. Right? You know, if Debbie going to work, if it's a work day, I'm out weekday. You know she working during that time anyway. So I would just be at home doing house projects or you know whatever, playing video games. I'm like I'm all right.

Speaker 5: 7:55

You know the interesting thing about that because I just recently went through something similar. I noticed, when I'm not focused, I'm distracted by everything, and everything starts to get to me, and easily.

Speaker 3: 8:10

I was telling Christine about that. I said easily too.

Speaker 5: 8:15

Easily right and I was telling Christine about it.

Speaker 5: 8:19

And this is the benefit of having a good woman. A good woman knows how to put encouragement into your soul when you really need it. And she just spoke to me about knowing who I am, being confident in what I can do, knowing my greatness and just refocusing on the things. That's necessary instead of looking to the left and right. There will always be someone that can be better, but just because they're better at something, don't diminish my greatness. And she talked to me one night and, man, since that day, I've been waking up on fire. I mean, every single day I've just been grinding and just doing everything that I know I need to do. Even the moments when I don't want to do it, I still get up and do it, because one of the things that I feel that we men need from women is we need someone that can believe enough, even in the moments when we don't believe in ourselves.

Speaker 5: 9:20

And to have that in your corner makes you feel like I don't just want to do this for me. Not only do I want to do it for me and you, but I also want to give you a belief, the honor that it deserved to have by you extending it to me, and that makes a man feel powerful. I know the notice. That would be one all different that, but a man that has a woman that truly believes in him. And I ain't talking about someone who's just a selfish bastard or anything like that, but I'm talking about a real man that have a woman who believe in him.

Speaker 5: 9:50

It makes him feel like I don't want to let her down. I don't want to diminish her belief in me. I don't want to weaken it by my laziness or my insufficiencies or just my neglect. I want to put my ass to the grinding and get it done. And she put so much fire in me, mom, I'm telling you and that's what I've been doing I can wake up at 5, 5.30 every morning and I'll bust my ass into 7.30 at night just programming and doing re-entries and trying to get these individuals here I'm about to sort of be on the phone with you.

Speaker 5: 10:26

I'm about to do a parole preparation class and just every single thing I can do I'm writing programs, I'm learning how to write articles, I'm working on putting a new play together, I'm working on another of play, things with the older linkies, and every single thing that I'm doing it's like a testimony of what this woman has put into me simply by her belief, and that's a powerful thing to have. To me, it is, that just is real.

Speaker 3: 11:00

I actually wanted to talk about today. We already did an episode about the hustle hustle culture in the side of the joint, but I actually wanted to get your take on that. So I wanted to do a part two to it, because it's easy in there if you don't really have focus or something to focus on, it's easy to get in that feeling of man. You might be totally focused, you might be in the law library every day working out, every day programming, and all of a sudden you just fall off and, yeah, it's kind of easy to just get caught up in that. I mean, to be honest, I can't count how many times I don't went months within that 10 year period where I didn't work out, I ain't signed up for no new programs, I ain't write nobody, I ain't call nobody. Like all of a sudden, like I never watched TV before, all of a sudden I had 10 TV shows I was watching. You know I was. You know.

Speaker 5: 12:06

And you've seen all of them before, All the movies you saw before, all the TV, all you just reruns. But it's just easier to sit there and crack open the box of debuts and then go do a pushup.

Speaker 3: 12:15

I get it. And that's what I was going to say too. Like all my eating habits, I start eating junk food. I started making Foxies, I was, you know. All of a sudden I'm like damn, where are my money going, you know.

Speaker 3: 12:26

But then, you know, hopefully you got somebody, whether it's a family member or a good woman, in your life, wherever your partner or even one of your homies around you, cause, you know, we do got that little community in there and they be like, hey, bro, tighten up, you know, and they kind of renew that spirit in you. And next thing, you know, you done got a new hustle. You do got some new programs going. You back in the library, you even read five, six books this month, you know. And it's the same out here, but at the same time, like in there, it's really necessary to have them people around, because you got a lot of free time. You know, out here I can get off work and I can be like man. I'm gonna watch some TV for two hours. Man, it's tired, get something to eat, go to bed. But when you in there, you have potential to benefit the most from all that time you have, or you have the potential to suffer the most from all that time you waste.

Speaker 5: 13:30

Well, that's the problem with being in here Like out there if I don't work, I don't eat, I get evicted, I'm bumming, I can't do anything. I'm living under a bridge and here you can have a job that only takes five minutes to do and then the rest of your day is open and there's not really anything to force you to do what's required of you. So you have to be self-motivated. I'll give you an example just recently, I just recently found out that the parole board had made new stipulations on with their judging us off of, and it came out in 2021. I still have a parole handbook from 2017 and 2019.

Speaker 5: 14:15

Now, had I not been as vigilant as I am when I read and then ask for information, I still would be operating off obsolete information. But they did their job, they made it available. But if I'm just sitting here wondering about what basketball game I'm gonna play or what fundraiser I'm gonna get in, or am I gonna try to trick this guy out or something, then I would have missed out. And so the hustle is different. When I first came in, hustling meant money. That's what it meant, and I hustle. I sold almost everything in the joint. I also drug toothbrush condoms. I sold almost everything in the joint.

Speaker 5: 14:58

But the hustle now is different, because now the hustle is about information that's gonna get me home, and you see guys around here, especially at Grafton. You see guys around here now. They're hungry for the information because they let a lot of guys go from here, and so, while the focus at one point was on prison stuff, now the hustle is how can I get more information, how can I learn more, how can I connect more, how can I network more? Because homes start to become more important than prison. So while you can go ahead and sell these strips and like a thousand dollars a month from it, now you're like when do strips make you? It'd be two more years.

Speaker 3: 15:40

Facts. You know the evolution of that hustle mentality, man, cause I know I could tell you for a fact and I know you just same thing, cause you just ran off a list that was pretty similar to mine is when you walk in prison, your hustle mentality. I mean you might still have some street hustle, depending on what you was doing out there. You might just be lost in the sauce until you stumble across it or somebody you know turn your lights on, get you hit. But in the beginning it was all like I'm selling drugs, I'm selling porn, I'm selling, you know, I'm shooting tattoos, I'm selling art, yeah, gambling, you know, at a certain point it's like, all right, man, you gonna try to stay out of trouble a little bit, mostly because all that stuff you've been doing kind of funded some comfort to where you kind of put it on autopilot and stay away from it a little bit. So you like, all right, man, I'm ironing clothes, I'm, you know, you know whatever.

Speaker 3: 16:43

You know, and then you get to that enlightened point at the end where it's like renewed. And you like, all right, hopefully, hopefully it's renewed. And you get that enlightenment to where it's like, all right, I'm trying to figure out ways to build my credit out there, I'm trying to find jobs out there, I'm trying to network with certain people and all of a sudden it's like, like you said, it's like, yeah, I could go and sell some dope. I mean, it's certain stuff going around here where you can legitimately make thousands of dollars a month. You can make almost what people making on the street with a good job, you know. But you know the risk ain't rewarding no more. Like I used to thrive off the risk.

Speaker 3: 17:26

You know my punk. He was making hooch, I was shooting tattoos. We was doing all this stuff, man. It was like, oh, we just got word, they about to do a shakedown. Oh, we just got word SRT coming. Like we was, we thrived on getting over on them and thwarting their efforts, you know. Well, now you know, at the end of it it's like SRT coming, I'm gonna fuck. I ain't got nothing going on. I don't think I can keep that shit away from my punk.

Speaker 3: 17:51

I got nothing going on. Keep that shit away from my punk.

Speaker 5: 17:54

It's interesting that you say that, because I remember the mentality that I had when I first got locked up and it was kind of taught to me which was, if us versus them, we are the criminals and it's their job to catch us, but it's our job to outsmart them. And I remember when I was in Lebanon I think I did about two years in Lebanon this is before the FBI came to get me I remember being so caught up in the hustle I didn't even call home. I was just, it was just every single day. And then back then the Cincinnati guys, they had all the weed down there. So you get a ounce of weed. We didn't really do anything because you can only make $250 off an ounce a week of everyone had it. So you're getting out maybe $15, $16, $15 to $16 spoons. It's like $100, you couldn't make any money, but we got the crack in there. We're making almost $1500 off of A-ball easily.

Speaker 5: 19:03

And it was so crazy that I was just doing everything down there because I didn't even see home the idea of going out and going out into society. That didn't even cross my mind. It would cross my mind. Okay, I gotta go over to Jay John and pick up this and gotta go make sure that Hernandez go over there and get that money because he owes $200, keeping track of all of this it was. I was just caught up in the hustle and the problem with that is when you get out of the hustle you feel about that void of the hustle Because I mean, if you're not getting any real money in, it's hard doing time, and it is really really hard doing time and pull towards. You ain't even gonna suffer like this man. Go back, go home, get you a pack, or go back and do this and do this or no, try to. It's okay instead of okay. You ain't gotta sell drugs but just want a football ticket or do that or do that.

Speaker 3: 19:56

And I don't think for the listeners. Man, I don't think they realize how easy it is to get roped off, especially if you already solidified reputation as a hustler. Like people would come to you and be like, hey, why don't you run my ticket for me? You ain't gotta start nothing, I already got this, just run it for me. You know, here, just hold this and run my store for me here, just run it. Like you already solidified your reputation. So people will come and seek you out Like, oh, what's up what? Your money ain't good. Well, hey, I got a plug, I can get some dope in here. We could you know, like, if you get the dope in, why you ain't doing it. You're right, yeah.

Speaker 5: 20:38

But you know the crazy part about it. I was fortunate because, like I said, a lot of crazy stuff was happening and I sat down with my sister one of my older sisters sat down with me and she asked me she said what is it gonna take for you to stop hustling? Because I'm making three-way calls to her to make doing deals over? And she is not even aware because she's like, okay, she just set the phone down and I'm doing all these deals over the phone. And I told her I said well, I'm doing this to protect you. I wasn't trying to protect her, I was just being a, I was being selfish motherfucker. And, just to be real about it, she sat me down and she said what is it gonna take for you to stop hustling? And I remember telling her I said if you send me $100 a month, I'll stop hustling. And she said done, and this was.

Speaker 5: 21:28

And this was back in like 2000 and six, seven, somewhere, like that, and every single month, without fail, she sent me $100. And now now I'm like am I gonna be sleazy or am I gonna be a person of integrity? And I think that was one of the first moments when my new character started to show it wasn't that old manipulative. Oh, I can get this, but I ain't gonna let her know that I'm still doing this. I'm gonna because I really felt she genuinely cared about me when she made that sacrifice for me and to this day she still do it and I honor her by being true to my word to her, that's dope.

Speaker 5: 22:14

A lot of people do not have that and it's hard to sign and go over to. We call the child hall a diet, because even if you go to all three meals you're still going to lose weight. I'm on the child hall diet. You know, even if you go over there you're still going to lose weight because it's just not enough and so if you don't have some support it's hard. So it makes all those other options more tempting.

Speaker 3: 22:35

And you know, like I said before, like we thrived on that, on that lifestyle, on the risk, on the, on the high intensity, you know movement. But I recall, like the same feeling, man, once I decided like all right, I'm at that point, I need to start staying out of trouble, and I started letting a couple of them, little high risk hustles, go. I started focusing on like art and all that and I started getting money from family. You know, my dad started putting money on the phone. Actually, I remember before my dad started contributing for real, because my dad didn't always contribute, it was more like two, three times a year he would give me something. So it was like my mom, my sisters, my girl, you know people that really felt the burden of it, that was trying to give me something and it wasn't regular. So before then it was all provided by me, by my hustle hand. I didn't care what risk I took with it because it was all me. But when I understood like they can't afford to be doing this for real and they doing it Now, I'm like I ain't gambling no more. I ain't, you know, I ain't going trying to smoke no more. I ain't buying no Foxies, no more. I used to buy, I used to cook, I used to be able to microwave two times a day, every day. I was like man, that shit got to stop. And like I got so cheap, I got so frugal, you know. And then when it got to the point where a little more regular money started coming in, that's when my conscience really started kicking in, like I ain't about to put them through this, you know, I ain't about to. They sending me money, they trying to look out and keep me out of trouble, and you know, they see, you know they can't even come visit because I'm in a hole or something crazy, you know. So that was like the first step to having a conscience and some doing some positive future planning, because before they and I ain't planning for the future.

Speaker 3: 24:41

I was like we got 10 years. We in year two, we got eight years to go. We got to eat. You know, like that's the way I was talking about something like we got to eat, I don't care. And towards the end it was like yo, you ain't got to do that, I'm all right. You know, I go to the child. I got to, you know, and they was like no, no, you tell us all the stories Like, yeah, but it's sustenance. I ain't going down there because it tastes good, I'm going down there because I can eat. You know, if I got to eat a single ramen noodle, like fuck it. That's what I'm going to do. And it's like that paradigm shift of personality and responsibility was like epic, because it set the foundation for everything else to come.

Speaker 5: 25:28

Absolutely, absolutely. And I noticed that when I noticed this change in how my family deal with me.

Speaker 5: 25:36

I've talked, I've made amends with all my family and one of the things that I had to help them understand is I can now appreciate what you guys have done for me. You know like my sisters have always treated me like a brother, but also like a son. You know they always they always saw that they would think they were taking care of me. And I know over the years and my parents have as well. But I know over the years, my sisters particularly how I took advantage of them a lot. And my mother, when she started feeling guilty, when she felt guilty because she believed that she's I'm the reason why she's in here. I have to tell her mind, you're not the reason why I'm in here, I'm the reason why I'm in here. But there was a time, I think, capitalized off of that her guilt and try to get more.

Speaker 5: 26:24

My father was been a writer since the day one, took advantage of him, and my stepmother, marva I, was that individual that only understood and cared about what I needed and even though I know I was a burden on them, I'm like what's you, hey?

Speaker 5: 26:42

That's the part of being in my life. But I've also been in a time when I had no one, and when I had no one. That's when the grime is really start coming out of me. But now I've got people in my life that I am just overwhelmingly appreciative of and every single day I try to do something to honor them. Maybe they may not see it, but just stand out of the way. If you send me something, I thought I thought I'd keep an ledger of how much money I spend a month, how much money I spend in commissary, how much money is going out, how much money is going in, because I have to be conscious of this, because they're my source of revenue, and I told you when you came to visit me. I said I normally I can't do anything from you, but I can honor our friendship by doing all the little things that I can do right now.

Speaker 5: 27:33

And it's not always about asking you for money, it's not asking you to do anything, because your friendship enough is what I value. It's not what you can do for me, but it's just your friendship. I've gained a deeper appreciation for people. So, the same way, my understanding of people has changed. My hustle has changed to where now I'm hustling for information, I'm hustling for my future, I'm hustling to transfer a knowledge that I took over in the street life and apply it over into being a man, you know, and being an adult, being a brother, being a husband, being a nephew, being all the things that I wish to become and the things that I am right now. That's what all my investment goes into, and I know it's making me a better man, because my relationships are better with the people that I did with than it was in fact being.

Speaker 3: 28:19

Yeah, that's dope. And you know, I want to kind of like circle this back around to the beginning of the conversation, where we talked about like me picking up all this time at work, and we always talk about that. One thing I always said is like when I don't feel like it, I just get up and do it. And then also it kind of relates to this whole journey of progression that we're talking about, um, applying that old mentality of hustling to my new life. You know, like it's, I didn't give up everything from the old me. I had to reinvent and repurpose it. So now, when I be like, you know, back then it was like, oh man, you know everything fucked up. I got to go out here and get it. However I can get it.

Speaker 3: 29:11

Now I realized that I've learned too much. I have too many options to take that bad choice, the easy choice yeah, it's easier, but the risk level go up, and now I got way too much shit to be risking, you know, and not only is it monetary, not only is it family, you know a house or a car and all that stuff to lose. But I set too much of a good example for me to take that bad choice and suffer the consequences for everybody that's following behind me, absolutely, you know. So, instead of being like man, I mean, I still got homies that's in the street. I'm still trying hard to you know when they ear get them out, but I could easily call them like man, fuck it. I need some money and you know I'm fortunate enough that those people that I do keep contact with would say no, right, they would say no.

Speaker 5: 30:13

They know you, they know the new you.

Speaker 3: 30:15

Yeah. So it's that even considering anything like that, I'd be like I'm going to pick up a day here, I'm going to go pick up a day here, I'm going to pick up a half a day here. Man, hey, it's a program, I can go do this, I can do that, I can do a speech, I can do whatever I need to to get anything done. And not only does it benefit me and whatever I'm trying to pursue, but it also benefits me in setting that example and showing the possibilities for the people that's coming behind me, cause I'm trying to tell you, man in the joint, it was, it was too easy, like I know.

Speaker 3: 30:50

I understand that everything that we're talking about I want to say that for the audience, everything we're talking about is ill gotten gains. So when I say it's easy in the joint to make some money, if you got somebody in there incarcerated, I don't want you to be like it's easy for you to get money. I ain't got to send you that. What I'm saying is it's easy to make the bad choices to get fast cash, and some of them choices aren't benign. Some of those choices can land you more time.

Speaker 3: 31:20

You know, yeah, if you get in a fight, you could land some more time. You know, depending on how you go, if you mess around and get caught with a certain amount of the wrong stuff. You know, trying to get some money, you could mess around and get some more time, like you're not immune just because you're already in prison. So I do keep that in mind, like when I'm I mean I did 72 hour a week, no 70 hours, 70 hour a week last week. You know I'm like so. And my wife, she don't understand it because she like that's too much, even though it's all time that would normally be doing nothing or everybody else is busy I'm not missing out time with the family, but she's like that's too much. And I'm like you don't understand the level of hustle I had before I was this person, you know.

Speaker 5: 32:13

Yeah, but do you understand where she's coming from?

Speaker 3: 32:15

I do.

Speaker 5: 32:15

She's coming from the. I understand the money, but one of her concerns is also just you.

Speaker 3: 32:21

No, no, I'm not talking about the money I'm not talking about the money I'm talking about.

Speaker 3: 32:24

Like, sometimes it's not even about the money, that's not even the reason we hustle sometimes, like you, you just, you know, you're just, you know, you're just, you know, you're just said it. When you give up that hustle, it was a while where life was weird. I know what to do, you know. When people come around like yo, I got some tickets, you like, nah, bro, I don't even do that, no more. But I don't really, I don't really know what. I don't know. I don't know what I do now. But I don't do that now. I'm like you know, you, how many times you just spent just walking around the track trying to figure out what the fuck you about to do with your day? Like, my days when I first stopped hustling was like empty, yeah.

Speaker 5: 33:03

It was hard cause you always saw it. You always saw some angle that you always saw something you can get into. Covid hit man these guys down here was making like 10, 15, 30 million. I mean about $30,000 just doing strips and with that other stuff that they doing out there.

Speaker 3: 33:24

No, we spread on the paper. Uh, what's that like?

Speaker 4: 33:27

The Toochie.

Speaker 3: 33:28

Yeah, toochie, the synthetic weed, the acid strips.

Speaker 5: 33:32

They were making a killing down here and everyone's saying like look man, I mean like $30,000. I mean I'm sitting like nope, nope, nope, nope, I ain't doing it, I'm not doing it. And I remember talking to Christine about it and I'm telling you, just having a good woman is just it's amazing. So I remember killing her that the one thing that would hurt me is you have one minute remaining for me to do something and she looked me in my face and said you were a liar.

Speaker 5: 34:07

And I never would have bothered me before. But for her to say you are a liar about everything you said and everything you said you were, that would bother me now, because I worked so hard to set a standard of a man that I am and so why those things were tempting. I didn't want to be smirking my character or the standard in which I said to where she can look me in my eyes, and all this time I invested everything. I would have did it anyway, but not for a liar that would have crushed me and it's so hard to build that reputation twice.

Speaker 3: 34:43

I say it's hard to build that reputation twice, coming from our already working background that's just strange how that, how that changed before.

Speaker 5: 34:51

I can care what a person call me a liar. Okay, I'm a liar, you again in my cheer. I'm a manipulator up y'all mall that, but just let me get what I want. But now that that that will crush me that's dope thank you for using Gtl back on topic.

Speaker 3: 35:09

Back on topic, it was something I wanted to talk about, so we didn't talk about all this money is possible to get in prison, right, and I'm gonna tell you, man, I believe in mentorship and I've met a lot of people that I mentor me over the years in prison, and one of my dudes man, even though he was still kind of in the scheming and everything in in a way, he showed me how to look outside the box, you know, because I was still like trying to figure out what I was gonna do when I got home, how I was gonna not just go straight back to the streets and I walk over two rows and I'm sitting on a locker box talking to him. He like, oh yeah, man, I just, I just did this, I'm build my credit, already got a 700. I'm like, wait a minute, what we in prison he done been down like eight years at this time. He like, yeah, I got like a 700, I just bought this, a videography equipment, and I'm gonna go home and do all this stuff. And sure enough, man, he came home. He started this media company, was doing some nice stuff, man, but he didn't focus on that. He ended up losing it all. But it opened my eyes though. Like this dude just built a whole damn company from nothing, from inside a prison just making small preparations, man, or like you know.

Speaker 3: 36:40

Or like you know, I got a little extra money. I'm gonna send some money home and put it in a CD, you know what? Whatever it is, I'm, I don't want to spend it, I want to blow it. I'm blowing it on little debbies and and whatever temptation comes around because, like we said, when you mess around and lose focus, or you mess around and get that little bout of depression and all of a sudden every single thing has the potential to distract you. My bank account was going down. So it's all types of options to stay the course or even advance that I ain't think about back then, man, mostly because of where I come from, like I ain't know nothing about no IRAs, no CDs, no, you know nothing to really do with my money. You know to secure it or make money back then. So it's interesting to hear like do's, this do's, was getting all this money and I'm wondering, like where all that money at right now, well, I think.

Speaker 5: 37:45

I think that's one of the major problems in here. We may, they don't give you wrong. They have financial literacy classes and they have money smart. But I'll speak for a lot of guys that I came in with. We really had no concept of the value of money, but we had it, but it didn't matter if you blew it, because you just go back out on the block and make more. And even in here we don't. We don't have tangible money anymore.

Speaker 5: 38:14

Like I remember when I was in Lucasfield. I remember I saw my first hundred dollar bill, the new hundred dollar bills, and I was like what the hell is that do's press? They had a fan of a $500 and he showed them to me and he was like this was the new money, look like out there. I'm like, wow, I don't even look like money that I know. And then when I was a webinar, we send money home by wrapping it in a carbon paper and sending it out. But you don't really have money money anymore, like tangible money in here. Everyone's doing these cash apps and everything like that and when you, when you, get money sent in from from the streets, it's just on a computer that says this is that this is your balance. So we blow through money without even knowing it.

Speaker 5: 38:56

And I told you not until I start keeping the ledger of how much money was coming in, how much money was going out, that I started knowing that I have a spending pattern and my spending pattern is this every three months. I go broke every three months, but I'll say I'm 90 days, I'm at like a dollar 85, a dollar four, and then I'll go all the way back up to $2,300 and in 90 days it goes all the way back down. And what I started noticing was the more money I get, the more money I spend, and not until I get to the end do I stop like oh, maybe I need to pull up a little bit. And so what I had to start telling myself. I said you have to start valuing the money. You have to think if I don't get any more money and how long can this sustain me? And no, don't know, I still have to get my hygiene, I still have to send my $20 home to you a month. I'm still doing all the things I'm supposed to. How can I make this money be sustained and last for as long as possible into that next influx of money coming in and a lot of us don't do that.

Speaker 5: 40:07

When I first got down here, they had accidentally sent me all the money that I spent as I've been in prison and it was like tens of thousands of dollars and I'm like I didn't have anything to show for it, not a single thing out of that idiot of things that they said that I purchased through commissary, through food and clothes boxes, through TV, through electronics, or I didn't have anything to show for any of that. And I'm like man, imagine in all these years 20, 30 years if I would have started saving 10, $15 back then, $20 back then, even though it's not, it's not a fortune, it's a hell of a lot more than I got now. But I did. I didn't practice these things. I didn't understand the value of what money was. I just understood when I have an imposed, suspended and that's a consumer mindset.

Speaker 3: 40:54

Well, that is very much a consumer mindset, but it is also because of the situation in prison. We tend to focus on the routine. We tend to focus on today, that's it, you know. So when you got a routine in your routine involves spending money, then you routinely spend money. And I remember when the first time I had that concept of money and worth in prison, I spent like $5,000 in like a couple months. I was putting a hundred dollars a week on the phone. I was, I mean, really it probably more than that, because my family was putting money on the phone too. I was putting money on the phone. I would just sit there for hours on the phone yeah and, like I said, I was cooking twice a day.

Speaker 3: 41:45

I was doing all this. I would cook and give it away because I wasn't hungry, like I was, like damn. So I have no concept. I don't know what, how much money I spent over them 10 years, but I know for sure there was too much.

Speaker 5: 42:02

It was entirely too much and we don't, we don't it's like. Now I'm beginning to understand. I really don't have a great grasp on it yet, but I'm beginning to understand the value of it and I think that would be more. It would have more impact on me once I'm actually home and I understand the value of work to money, the value of my effort to money, the value of my time to money, to where it would have more impact to me. But yeah, that's one of the pitfalls of making money in here, because, as you and I were talking last time we did this, you can be a king living here off of $300 a month.

Speaker 3: 42:44

Oh yeah, prison rich.

Speaker 5: 42:46

Yeah, it's prison rich, and so the longer you have all the ladies and all the greaties you can, people come to you all day. You go to him because he's always on by something.

Speaker 5: 42:56

It's like oh yeah yeah, I'm doing well in here and the hustle mentality doesn't change. I don't care where you are at the moment and that you're making. A mentality is there, but you also have to have a value of your time, your effort, your energy and well as what you're sacrificing. That's what. That's what counting. The cost is how much a personal self is this gonna cost me if I do this? We always like to give my time up, but how much a personal self is it gonna cost me for me to make this decision or for me to do this action or for me to get involved with this person, because you might not be able to afford the consequence?

Speaker 3: 43:37

You know, I just had a conversation with my 11 year old and my seven year old at my five year old, like two days ago, and we were talking about wasting, you know, and we were talking about why I get so mad when they waste stuff. Because they were kind of like making fun of me for a minute and I let it go. But then I kind of got serious and gave them a little speech and I was like, man, listen, from now on I want all of you guys to think about things in terms of time. And they're like what do you mean? Of course there's 11, seven and five. What the fuck are you talking about? And I said I said, baby, you remember when you told me you wanted to watch? And she was like yeah, I was like that watch cost me like 40 bucks. I said do you know where that watch is right now? She got real quiet. I said exactly. I said you're not in trouble for losing the watch. I said but what's the first thing I told you when I gave you the watch? Don't take it off. I said right, I said I don't tell you this stuff is punishment. I tell you it as advice. I said so now I want you to.

Speaker 3: 44:54

We were driving, so I looked out the windows of gas station. I said how much you think it cost to work there at the gas station? How much you think you pay? You know, probably like $13 an hour. Great, I said how many hours do you have to buy just to work, just to buy that watch? So she started doing the math. You know 13, 26,. You know 39. Yeah Well, I got to work this many hours. I said wrong. She looked at me like what? I did a math right? I said no, because you got paid taxes. So then we do the little math on the taxes. I did that for her. I said, all right, so now how many hours you got to work? So they do the math again and they tell me I said wrong. And they were like why? I said because now you got to pay sales tax to buy it. So this is the actual price of the watch.

Speaker 3: 45:42

And they were like oh man, so now, like, so now, how much you know? So we go through this for a minute. And so I'm like all right, now listen, if you count up all the stuff I buy for you the watch, your socks, your shoes, the stuff they just leave places. You went to school and came home without a coat. How the fuck that happened.

Speaker 3: 46:05

So I'm like, how often? I was like, how much do you see me go to work? And so they started thinking, like all the time? I was like, yeah, like all the time. So I told them how many hours I worked last week.

Speaker 3: 46:18

I'm like how often do you think I would have to go to work if I didn't have to keep replacing things that was lost or broken? Yeah, it's for you, but for your sister, for your brother, for your other sister, for stuff in the house that just you know, over time falls apart. You know, I was like man, I could probably I don't know, probably work two days less a week. I said, man, I'm not saying this to be hard on them, but I was like man, I'm telling you this because I do it out of love, I do it because it's my responsibility, no doubt, but I would do it anyway because it means that you don't have to.

Speaker 3: 47:02

So we went on and on and on. But that was my point is like you know, we didn't. I didn't have no sense of responsibility when I was getting fast money Right, like it was stuff that I purposely sacrificed to throw them off the scent, the trail of some other stuff that I was doing Like I don't give a fuck about that man. As long as they don't get this, I'm cool. You know, I get that back. That's the whole hustling mentality. So I'm gonna get that back.

Speaker 5: 47:30

Yeah, get that back.

Speaker 3: 47:31

You know you don't follow, so you don't blow money so easily.

Speaker 5: 47:34

You know you can always get it back.

Speaker 3: 47:36

Any true hustler in the history of hustling gonna tell you they done fell off 20,000 times. Hell might've fell off weekly.

Speaker 2: 47:46

But we don't get that back.

Speaker 3: 47:48

It's a constant, you know, trying to outpace the losses, you know. And it's like man, like you think about that rich people mentality that you hear about so often, where it's like, and Carlos Slim say he lived in the same house he had before he was rich, same car he had before he was rich. He, a billionaire, now ranked as one of the most rich men in the world, still driving the same old shit. We might be thinking like that's stupid, but that's because we broke. We broke.

Speaker 5: 48:23

You know Exactly.

Speaker 3: 48:24

And you hear dudes like in rap songs. It's probably not true, but it's a very impactful statement where they like I think I heard Lil Wayne say like I'm still spending money from 1990, not you know, yeah, that's a Steve Jobs.

Speaker 5: 48:41

Steve Jobs wore the same clothes. Imagine how much money you spent on clothes a year. He wore the same outfit. We think, oh man, why would you wear the same thing? But he like that's not the point. My clothes is irrelevant. If something clean, if something I can put on, if something I can go out. But it's like all of these other things. That's part of the penitentiary hustle. You wanna have the latest shoes. You wanna have the latest, the nicest watches. You wanna have the slickest clothes. You wanna have the exclusive water model that no one else has. It's like always trying to outshine it. Just like out there, you always trying to outshine it outdo everyone else to let them know yeah, I got it. I don't have to go to the child hall. I could be out of my box for the next six months. You know, just because I have it's like those things is this messed up mentality that we have. That's part of that hustler mentality. It's not just getting money, it's spending money.

Speaker 3: 49:39

Yeah, I think some of it was scheming too.

Speaker 5: 49:41

Because I can't.

Speaker 3: 49:42

I think some of it was scheming, because there were times where I'd be like I just got a food box. Somebody that kind of is like off and on come into your life and be like y'all wanna buy your food box. You don't need it, probably can't even fit it in your box right now, but you're like oh, hold on, order this from a homie name. You ain't gonna let that go, you ain't gonna let the opportunity go. Or buy me these shoes and just instantly sell the shoes, just for no reason.

Speaker 5: 50:12

But, like on my heyday, when I was at the very top, I was in Lebanon and we had locker boxes and several different people sales. We had so many cigarettes it was ridiculous. We was blowing cigarettes like it was nothing. That's when it was. I was still on hours of smoke, but we had so much that we didn't really need to do anything else. But we got greedy and that's eventually how we got knocked. But we just had so much.

Speaker 5: 50:40

And I can say every single morning when I woke up, it wasn't about how is the family doing. It wasn't about, damn, how am I gonna get home. It was about how am I gonna get these eight balls off? How am I gonna get this over to J-John? How am I gonna get this down to E-Edward? How is that gonna? Oh, I gotta make sure. Make sure he's paying people to that money. Oh, dude going on a visit today, so make sure he get that back. And then, once we get that back, we're gonna go ahead and cut it up and I'm gonna give it to.

Speaker 5: 51:04

It was about that every single day, every single day. And then I'm respecting someone else's house, so I'll throw him some play. And he respected my house, so he throwed me some play and it was just an economy in there and it was never about anything other than hustling. That's all that matters Sometimes from time up to time down, and it made the time go so fast that, yeah, I forgot it, I was doing time. And then when all of it stopped, yeah, time started picking up again. It's like getting heavier again. I'm like damn, only a week went by. Hey, I guess it's been like three years. Yeah, it's like getting heavy again.

Speaker 3: 51:45

But I think a major part of giving that up is a contentment, and we use contentment in both a good word as a good word and a bad word, and a good way and a bad way. It's like when you become content with not having the stuff you don't need, then you start realizing, like I got a lot more resources than I had before. Yeah, you know, because I ain't buying a bunch of bull stuff. You know, we not saying don't get to the point where you content you ain't striving to do better. That's a different type of contentment. But when you like I don't need to be involved in this, man, I don't need to have the best and need to show off this, and that I don't need to Cook twice a day or pay somebody to cook for me, it's like come on, man, calm down, pull back and Figure out what do I need, what do I not need With the stuff that I don't need? What else could I do with those resources?

Speaker 5: 52:44

Yeah, you start putting the things that's important. Important, like I say now you keep in my word to my family, to Christine, to you Mean something more to me than money. Me having the respect of those individuals that I just named means more to me than Some new shoes. It's like when you start Understanding the focus of where your life is supposed to be and start understanding the worth of things. I didn't understand the worth of people, for they was always something for me to use, but once you start understanding the worth of people, then Everything that you do start mattering, because you know everything that I'm doing is going to affect someone.

Speaker 5: 53:29

Okay, what you do, everything you do, is going to affect someone and and with the coming, with that understanding, this is where maturity comes from. And a lot of ticket ticket a lot of us, some longer than others, to Fully mature and to be in men. There's so many 50-60-70 year old people in here that is young and immature in their mind. They're young and immature, but I think I didn't become mature until I was 40. I didn't get it.

Speaker 5: 54:02

I came in at 18 and it took 22 years before I was like Well, maybe I need to grow up and maybe the way I'm living ain't the way it is I'm supposed to. And over these last eight years I I still I've developed into being a man, and that's someone that I can look in the mirror, I can present in front of anyone without shame and embarrassment of amelioration and say I'm proud of who I am today.

Speaker 3: 54:29

Oh, but that cost something that's all right, though. Yeah, it ain't no price that I wouldn't pay for that.

Speaker 5: 54:38

Nope, none, none. So yeah, but the hustle. There's nothing wrong with the hustle. What are you hustling for? What are you hustling for? And if you take that mentality and tour in the tour something that's going to benefit, you make it an investment, then a hustle all day. I hustle all day long. All day long. Now I'm doing commerce and information. I'm doing commerce and character building and building relation. That's my new commerce.

Speaker 3: 55:11

So yeah, I enjoy it and all of that stuff that you doing is not just to better you. I mean that stuff that that people see like. I Learned that that when I started moving different, when I start Consistently making the harder choices, the better choices, all the dudes that was running with me you know it was a few of them that was like Damn, like what you doing over there. Like now they got they curious. Now you didn't affect somebody else's life in a positive way. You know, if you can be that one candle in the dark room, somebody gonna look.

Speaker 4: 55:50

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 55:52

Now. I've said it's a little easier to make them hard decisions, because you realize that it's not just you.

Speaker 5: 56:00

No, it's not. It's interesting when people start associating you, associating you with good things instead of negative ones. You know, when people say your name like oh yeah, man, I heard you was a good dude man, I know I told you I can count how many times people that when I first met you I wanted to beat you up. I didn't even like you on my why it's like you? Just, I don't know you just like you would just air again. You just you just had my bra. That is not me. They're like oh yeah, I know that now.

Speaker 5: 56:26

But when I saw you from a distance, like you always seem to be going somewhere and he was just going to do something, he just doing too much. And and I told him, I said one of the things that I understand is I Am here to help people. I get that now. I did. I didn't understand that before and the way I help is through teaching. I I have been given an ability to discern things, information. I can break it down to the simplest understanding for anyone. Again, and I don't take that for granted. I didn't want to do that. Like I told you before, I wanted to be a rapper, but that just wasn't in the cars for me to do but really.

Speaker 5: 57:05

I'm a teacher. Yeah, I tried it, which is it's a lot harder than people I Never. People think it is. I respect anyone who's made it. I respect what they do, cuz that stuff is not easy.

Speaker 3: 57:21

But I never heard you rap or nothing. Man you know in prison. That's where are you here. Anybody rap that you Know?

Speaker 5: 57:28

what that was that was back like, but I thought I thought I could. But yeah, I'm just you. That that's just not good. I'm as bad as rapping as I am dancing and I cannot dance. So, yeah, but yeah. But I'm a teacher and and I enjoy teaching, I enjoy talking, I enjoy watching the process of a person going from a state of not knowing but that realization of now I know and walking in confidence. I enjoy watching the development for individual. That that gives me joy, because now I say now is two of us and it's a great feeling to just have a person say man, you saved my life Because I had someone teach me and I was able to tell them that and Like, yeah, without, without you, if you didn't take the time to walk with me and show me and help me understand and be patient With me as I was going through that learning phase, I Don't know what I would have been that's the new hustle.

Speaker 3: 58:24

I changed your lives. Man, without any, without any direct Come up you know, you ain't always looking for the profit, it's always just like yeah, I help.

Speaker 5: 58:37

I remember doing something about Johnny Apples. He did that, johnny Apples. He planted thousands of trees and never got one of them, that never got a chance to see one of them grow Um to a fruition. And that's how I think about individuals. I'm planting a thousand seeds but I may not see the fruits of it, but that's okay. I know the potential of what I planted in you and I know, if you allow it to grow. I know the kind of person that you're going to become as a result of it, and I played a part of it. So that's all that matters to me. Am I planning good seed? Am I setting good examples? Am I showing you something or what a man can be and the care he's supposed to have to be a better husband, better father, better brother, better Neighbor, better person so that you know that you are deserving of having someone like that in your life and therefore you can be that to someone as well?

Speaker 3: 59:23

You know we talked about reputation right, and the respect of people you love and not willing to compromise. That I remember, you know, coming at a joint or going to a different joint when I was young, when I was first coming in, where your reputation was everything and what they use, the adjectives they use to describe you, was way different and you had an aversion to those good qualities for real Like. If somebody was like I heard you was a thorough ass, nigga man, you're real nigga man. You, you could fight, you could hustle, you could do whatever. You know you heartless, you like hell yeah, hell yeah. You know Somebody like those are great compliments.

Speaker 5: 1:00:06

I was a cop. Those are compliments.

Speaker 3: 1:00:07

Yeah, somebody be like oh man, dude, you know, yeah, he'll help you. Like not a hell. No, you know like I don't want nobody get the idea that they can come around here and just be asking for shit. And you know, and it was like if somebody was like yo, I heard you was a nerd. Like you, smart, you like hell. No, you know Like we downcast anything that was good back then. Nowadays it's like somebody come around like yo, I heard you was a hustler scheme. Are you like hell? No, hold on now. Who told you something like that? I ain't. I don't want none of that attached to my name. No more, none of those qualities.

Speaker 3: 1:00:43

You know, the stuff that got us ahead back then is the stuff that we want nothing to do with nowadays because it's counterproductive and all the stuff that I wanted nobody to associate with me Is all the stuff that I seek to be now like, yeah, I'm smart, yeah, I'm helpful, yeah, I'm a reliable yeah, you know, responsible. Like who the fuck is he? I?

Speaker 5: 1:01:11

Was just, I was just talking to this one guy and again we were talking about parole prep and he was like, yeah, man, I was gonna do it. Man, you know, you got, you got to get some outside people and you know, start a little community program out there and, you know, take some pictures and let them know that's what you're doing. And I told him, I said that doesn't work for me. I thought I'd be passionate about anything that I'm about, but what was really in the back of my mind, that's manipulation.

Speaker 5: 1:01:35

Yeah and and I was telling Christina to some people they can do that. It's like if you're an alcoholic and I'm you have one minute remaining drink this glass of champagne back.

Speaker 5: 1:01:47

Well, I can't go to. I mean, it's just like that's a champagne. Okay, for you is just glass of champagne To me. It's gonna take me down a path that I don't want to return to. So Anything that reeks of manipulation, anything that reeks of use of another person, I distance myself from because I don't want to be known as that person anymore. But I gotta go. I love you, bruh. As always, great conversation, which you love. Your energy is it as full as possible and I will talk to you sometime soon. Tell Debbie any kids to say hi and love them all for sure.

Speaker 3: 1:02:16

Yeah, I'll give you some. It was a great conversation, man. Thank you for being a part of it and sharing your wisdom, absolutely please.

Speaker 4: 1:02:30

Thank you for using gtl.

Speaker 2: 1:02:38

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