When Brother Wise speaks from his cell in the correctional institution, you can't help but lean in closer. His voice carries the weight of a reality few can imagine—the tribulations of fatherhood entwined with the harshness of incarceration. This episode isn't just about uncovering the unseen hardships within the American prison system; it's a testament to the strength of the human spirit and the bonds that remain unbroken, even behind bars. Brother Wise bares his soul, providing an unvarnished glimpse into the emotional landscape of an imprisoned father, as single mothers on the outside perform the heroic task of keeping their families whole.
Navigating the complexities of masculinity and mental health, we turn the lens on the transformative journey of fatherhood from the most unexpected places. The conversation extends beyond the confines of prison walls, into the hearts of families struggling with absence, and onto the societal stage where the roles of fathers are often misunderstood. We celebrate initiatives like Tyro dads that help mend the fractured connections between fathers and their children, and we underscore the urgency of addressing mental wellness among men. This episode is a clarion call to our community to acknowledge the power of vulnerability, the resilience of father-child relationships, and the potential for redemption and healing that lies within every story.
When Brother Wise speaks from his cell in the correctional institution, you can't help but lean in closer. His voice carries the weight of a reality few can imagine—the tribulations of fatherhood entwined with the harshness of incarceration. This episode isn't just about uncovering the unseen hardships within the American prison system; it's a testament to the strength of the human spirit and the bonds that remain unbroken, even behind bars. Brother Wise bares his soul, providing an unvarnished glimpse into the emotional landscape of an imprisoned father, as single mothers on the outside perform the heroic task of keeping their families whole.
Navigating the complexities of masculinity and mental health, we turn the lens on the transformative journey of fatherhood from the most unexpected places. The conversation extends beyond the confines of prison walls, into the hearts of families struggling with absence, and onto the societal stage where the roles of fathers are often misunderstood. We celebrate initiatives like Tyro dads that help mend the fractured connections between fathers and their children, and we underscore the urgency of addressing mental wellness among men. This episode is a clarion call to our community to acknowledge the power of vulnerability, the resilience of father-child relationships, and the potential for redemption and healing that lies within every story.
Welcome to Lockdown the Legacy stories from the inside out. I'm your host, remy Jones.
Speaker 2:
And I'm co-host Debbie Jones. We are a husband and wife team here to bring you the real life stories, experiences and questions around the American criminal justice system. We do advise discretion with this podcast. I think we should put that out there first and foremost. Yes, we are going to talk about experiences that happen inside the prison system, outside of prison systems. We will use language that might be offensive, but we intend to keep it real. And if that's not for you, we totally understand, but please do what's best for your listening ears.
Speaker 1:
Oh, we're about to keep it real, son. Our goal of this podcast is to share the inside realities of the American prison and criminal justice system, from pre-charges all the way to post-release, from the voices of those who've experienced it firsthand, including me.
Speaker 2:
That's right, we're going to get into it.
Speaker 1:
What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Lockdown to Legacy. Of course I'm your host, remy Jones, and this is another episode of WISES World. We're going to have Brother Wise on corresponding from the inside, giving us some good game and knowledge and wisdom. This episode, of course we're going to just catch up, see what's going on, but also I wanted to get his opinion about fatherhood, about what it's like to be a father in prison, and I ain't going to drop no details, just his story to tell what hopefully he can relate his own situation into that. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and get to the call and once again, thank you all for being here with us. Hello.
Speaker 3:
This is a prepaid debit call from An inmate of a Trumbull Correctional Institution. To accept this call, press 0. To refuse this call, hang up or press 1. To prevent calls from this facility. This call is from a DRC correctional facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Utilization of an unapproved application and three-way calls to communicate are strictly prohibited and a violation of DRC policy. Thank you for using GTL. Thank you for using GTL.
Speaker 4:
Hey, please, black man, how you feel?
Speaker 1:
I'm cool and I'm cool and how you.
Speaker 4:
I'm good man. I'm good everything, everything. I got a little small headache or whatever, whatever, but you know that's just about a change in Everything. Fluctuating man, but I'm good though. You know I got that Detonative distances real bad in my spine man, so it's like in the weather change like this and when they go from warm so we strain cold back to warm. Flushy way. You know I go through problems.
Speaker 1:
Man, I'm sorry to hear that matter but I'm good though.
Speaker 4:
I'm good though I'm good though man, I, we are, you, I'm about a family, everybody good everybody. Good man, you know how it is Our heads let's get a people what they need to hear that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, everything cool, man. You know I ain't got no problems, nothing to complain about, nothing worth complaining about, because there's always a solution. You know right, it's all good man. How? How was your trip? I don't know if you want to talk about that on the show, if you want to cut it out, if you don't want to. How was your trip? Yeah, how was it? How was your trip? Your round trip?
Speaker 4:
No, that was good, it was frustrating, but you know how that go, bro, you know how that go frustrating sitting in the bullpen. You got to wait for hours on hand. You know, once you get out there to Columbus, in the Holy cell, out there to To the hospital, what we got to go to it's just sitting in the bullpen. Man, that's the bullpen therapy. It's like you really got to have a strong head because you sitting in you sitting wrapped around and chains and handcuffs for hours on hand, from like 536 in the morning all the way to like you know I'm saying like two or three o'clock, 4 o'clock, you know I'm saying so. It's frustrating, man, it's really, really frustrating. It's the grading for real. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:
You know everybody got that experience of going to the ER and you know you sit there for a couple hours. But I mean, if you think about, it's way different for an inmate, because you got armed security, you know. You know, you got an armed sheriff escort you. They wrapped this chain, like you and the orange jumpsuit in the monkey suit, and they wrapped this chain around your waist and hit it with a lock, a padlock, and then they handcuffed you to a chain, you know, and then put the shackles on your feet. So I mean you sitting there looking like somebody's dummy while you waiting for medical care and, of course, you the last one on a priority list, you know Exactly. So, yeah, I'm sorry you had to go through that but.
Speaker 1:
I'm glad you got to go through it at the same time. Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4:
You know like I said man, you know it's the things that we got to go through to get things done. You know, and, like you said, it's like even with people out there you know, I'm saying in the real world out there like they go to the emergency rooms and they're sitting around the emergency room I was on in and I get it. It's frustrating. But imagine sitting in that emergency room with hours of hours on in and at the same time you're feeling like you're Going with hours of hours on in and at the same time your feet is shackled, your hands are shackled, your waist is tied up and and those cuffs is on so tight that they pretty much cut circulation. And you got to keep asking the CEO Yo, ceo, can you look, can you do these up a little bit? And if you get asshole, it's no.
Speaker 4:
If you get somebody that's half as decent, they'll take one click off. But regardless of the fact, man, that's like Don't nothing come off? Like nothing came off until I did my arm, until I got on the treadmill and did my stress test for my heart, nothing came off until then. Didn't even want to take it off. Then you know what I'm saying. But it's like wow, like for real. It's frustrating and stressful, but hey, I'm here, I'm living to see another day and you know God, don't give the guy, don't give us nothing that we can't handle. You don't put no way too heavy upon our shoulders that we can't handle.
Speaker 1:
So I just want to point out, though, that you know you there for a stress test, but the situation itself is stressful, so it's not like you get to go to the doctor just like I, you know, run some tests, like you don't even want to take the damn shackles and chains off so I can get some medical attention, man, you know I mean, just wanted a small.
Speaker 1:
No, I was just saying like I could understand if you was like some young dude in there. You know, you, you are coming in there for like a little stitches on your hand, something minor, you know. Like you in there for something to keep you alive for real. Like I need this. I ain't trying to fuck this up, and the last day you think about if I'm here for stress test on my heart is that I'm about to try to run bitch. I'm trying to get in here, you know.
Speaker 4:
Right.
Speaker 1:
For real. This time I'm trying to get on this treadmill, I ain't trying to run off three floors at his hospital.
Speaker 4:
She said when we talk about health care in the in the in the P now system. We have to take it serious because if we don't take eyes on the health care, if we don't take our health serious, nobody is nobody else in here is gonna take it serious enough for us Because they really don't care. Administration don't care. You know only only your closest con con rats that that really really got a concern for your care. Gonna say, hey, man, you need to go get that checked out for real, like I don't want to be. Not bad happen to you. Well, other than that it's like. You know the health care system in the P now system is really really, really bad, and I mean bad. You know we just had a brother in here died just the other day.
Speaker 4:
Man, you know he had been going through all kind of heart related issue problems, like myself. He had been going through some other things too, as far as being a diabetic and along with other issues, and at the same time he had been going back and forth to medical whatever to take his medicine. But sometimes, you know he walked with a limp. He'd be tired all the time. You know, sometimes he's late and then they say, well, we're not gonna give you your medicine right now because he's like five minutes late, 10 minutes late or whatever. But regardless of the fact of him being five, 10 minutes late, get a managed medicine, because now what you did was you deterred the fact of him even wanting to take it. He say you know, to hell with this medicine and walk out, go to child, do whatever. Then he ended up in the hospital because he had a minor heart attack. They take him out or whatever. They give him, whatever they're giving, like they did me they maybe walk around with when my heart was clogged up at like 55% and they wanted to wait till it was like 70, 78% before they even did anything about it. But by that time I had already stroked out and had a heart attack.
Speaker 4:
And the same thing happened to him just the other day, like a week ago, you know Well. First and foremost, he went back to court, he got his appeal in to get a new trial and then he came back in a couple of weeks. After him being back, you know, he walked over to medical, sweating profusely I'm sorry and then he just died right there. Boom, heart attack, right there on the floor.
Speaker 4:
Now I mean now my whole thing about sharing on this, bro, is the fact that, like I said, we have to take our health serious, but they also have to take us serious, because they should have never allowed him to leave medical period under those conditions because he was bad bro, he was real bad. And they be detecting and knowing these things, like when we take blood work and they see that the blood ain't right yet we always end up having, like being in the first stage or the second stage is a cancer when they do the blood work and they know it and by the time they tell us that we got it, it's already in the third and fourth stages. This is how they do it in the PNOW system. So we need help on the outside to speak on this, because we need no voice man. We need voices.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah, and that's why we do this, man, is to give insight, because when they put them fences up and you drive past the prison, most people don't even know it's a prison, unless they see somebody out in the yard. And unfortunately it's out of sight, out of mind. Ain't nobody thinking about what's going on in there? And if they do, they think it is. If you couldn't do the time, don't do the crime. Like they don't understand, like there's people in there. We sit here and fight wars in foreign lands just because there's people, and then we mistreat our own at home and you know, of course it is hard.
Speaker 4:
I'm not really really sad.
Speaker 1:
I mean it's our responsibility as the people on the outside, to be stewards of the people on the inside.
Speaker 4:
I mean. But you know every but the media, social media, you know, in the public, in the public side, they paint. They paint such a bad, raw, nasty picture of individuals that are in the penitentiary during time. You know, not all of us are bad, not all of us are bad and a lot of us, like today's generation, these young kids in here that's in here. They not bad kids, yo, they just misunderstood Because they had, they didn't have the proper guidance growing up.
Speaker 4:
I mean literally. You know, some of us, as older individuals, can say that we didn't have the proper guidance. But when I tell you that they didn't have the proper guidance, they didn't have none. The streets literally raised them. So, with that being said, they're not bad kids, man, and they're not bad young men and everybody, society gives up on them and they and I get it because they do such horrendous crimes and they have no remorse, no respect, no morals, no values. But can you actually really point the finger at them and say that you're all that bad when they actually had no guidance Period? I mean, how would you expect a child to grow up? You feel me?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean, if you think about it just for the terms of like, let's start it. Let's say the crack epidemic, you know right. And then comes, you know, bill Clinton, and he starts locking up people at Just crazy rates, talking about tough on crime. Right, so you went from Crack being the thing that took parents away to then prison being the thing that took parents away. But even then you still had grandparents, you still had the generation that came before all this stuff started being thrust upon us. Right, so you still had that positive guidance.
Speaker 1:
But as the generations kept going, you know, you went from like, oh okay, my dad's in prison to my dad, my granddad and my uncle's in prison, you know right, or somehow you know. And so when you got a single mother, who's you know, overburden or whatever, and then, lord forbid, she ends up being out of the picture Due to whatever, or due to the fact that she just working all the time trying to make it work you know, trying to make it work then you're raised by the streets, and you're raised by the streets by people. You know. You even got them old-school Guys in the streets, that's, they gonna get you in some trouble, but they gonna look out for you at the same time. Now they just sending you on dumb questions. They sending these kids on dummy missions. You know they putting the gun in their hand, putting the drugs in their hand. It used to be like a man, here goes some money. Man, stay out of, stay out of trouble gonna play that basketball, hit them books.
Speaker 4:
Right right now they like they we've been see. That's how they see it up on the corner.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you know, like do legit, sold drugs and Looked out for all the kids in the neighborhood, you know. But I mean some do I say.
Speaker 4:
That's why I say that's what they big up to all the single mothers out there, all the big of all the single mothers out there, big up to the single mothers shot out, to the single mothers who Who've been raising theirs on their own, you know I'm saying to keep in there their sons and daughters away from the streets. I know it's hard as a struggle, but you know, keep your head up, keep fighting, because you've got a fight. You got a fight, you know, and it's legal fathers. You got a fight.
Speaker 1:
I mean. So that kind of lead me to what I wanted to talk to you about. This episode is like being a father. You know why you in prison and I'm sure a lot of the listeners be wondering about that, like how does that work? But it's really hard on the heart of somebody in prison when just what we were just talking about is the case out there like you're away and yet it's people out there who are present influences whether good or bad. That's possibly leading your kid down the wrong road and you trying to be present from in there, you know you.
Speaker 4:
Have one minute remaining hold that thought right back.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, for sure, man, I can. I can try to get that.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, you know, hopefully, if there's some, some, some, some mothers out there listening that been through those struggles of them, those trials and tribulations, you know, tap in like, tap in like. We'd love to hear your, your side. You know what's on your mind about that situation.
Speaker 1:
Like it's. It's hard I know I would. It's hard when you trying to reach out from inside and you getting those roadblocks put in front of you. You know basically that's what we're talking about. You know you get them roadblocks, but the same people or Situations that put those roadblocks up eventually end up reaching out to you. Like yo, I need you to get through to your kid. They're you know, especially when things are getting out of hand and it's like Shit. I've been trying to get to my kid for X amount of time and you know it's been a problem. But now I Am the solution. You know, like right. And then, of course, you know as soon as you solve the problem, it might be radio silence again, exactly, but um, it's, it's real.
Speaker 1:
It's sad, man, when you know you in a situation like that, where you know, you Really try, you really try and or when you only get those every nine years, when you only get the Family day visitations. You know you don't get no regular visits, but when you get the family day is this when you get the bomb for real. So to see that happen With a young kid and then your kids a teenager, and then you have to point where your kids an inmate now, and now you get to spend some time with them. You got to take it at that time and that opportunity to like, pull her into them as much as you can. I hope that they're receptive to it, because that is the case sometimes, where you know that's how it progresses.
Speaker 1:
I have seen, I have seen some successful Relationships with people on from the inside out and I gotta say, man, there are some really good programs like Tyro. You know you mentioned Tyro. Tyro dads is a great program and I gotta give a big shout out to them because they do some good work and Some real selfless work with nothing but the best interest of the guys and the people on the inside. But yeah, it's usually like a program like that that kind of facilitates it and Because it's hard to try to do that on your own, especially if you know your family feels some type of way about you being in there, like I mean, there's always that reconciliation, you know you, especially if you're together with your, with your girl, whatever.
Speaker 1:
When at the time you go to prison, you don't get no time to work that out for real. You thrust immediately into the system, you fighting for your life, you in court, you like, ok, you can visit me and keep us some money in my books, like it's straight to the bit. Ain't no time to be like, hey, let's talk about how this all went down, let's talk about what happened. Let me apologize for the situation, you know, whatever. So a lot of times them feelings can just harbor down low.
Speaker 1:
Those feelings get projected onto your kid. Sometimes, you know, they show that he chose to leave us. You know. You know daddy had more better priorities than his family, whatever it is that they over there telling you and you're not there to even give you a side of the story, you know. But I really, really I'm happy man, genuinely happy, for the dudes and the women that do have good relationships with the kids, because I've seen that be a weak spot for a lot of guys in a place where you shouldn't show weakness. Everybody trying to put up their best front, everybody trying to act hard, but I've seen some dudes really break down when it come to like trying to reach their children on a emotional level or a mental level. Can I say?
Speaker 4:
Right Now. You absolutely right and every point that you made was valid, right. And I have to say that I still see the tough, the tough, the tough boy shell that men place upon themselves, or whatever the case may be, because they don't want to look weak, but that, and then see, and that's, and that stems from that toxic masculinity growing up, you know, we fall down, we get up, we don't cry, we brush it off and keep moving, you know, and it starts from there and it just progresses as time goes. You know what I'm saying Throughout the course of years, throughout the course of time, and, like you said, that breaks down.
Speaker 4:
When a man truly loves his child, he doesn't care anymore about what a person thinks, or, for man, another man sees him cry about his or, first and foremost, that's that barrier that he tore down in place of saying, um, I don't care what you think about me, because we tend to care what other people think about us, and that's what allows us to put that tough boy shell around us or that tough boy wall or that persona. I'm tough as hell and can't nothing make me cry. I'm the baddest motherfucker on the planet. No, no, no. Drop all that tough man shit for real, because, when it comes to your shorties, they are the most important people in your life at that particular point in time and even after, and she would have been before that if you weren't trying or attempting to be.
Speaker 4:
So I can understand from a mother's perspective and where she's coming from, as far as her anger stems from, if a man was out there not being a man but being a boy and not taking care of his responsibilities. However, the middle, the end, that work out there taking care of responsibilities and doing what it was they were supposed to be doing, and then they get incarcerated. For the women out there Don't stop now, you know. Don't allow this cycle to stop now. Still allow that man to be a father to his children, you know. But like you said, though, men have to come to the realization that we have to break these barriers down and not care about what the next man thinks about me, because what's most important is my child, and they come first, before anything else, after my mental health, because mental health is serious too, something we should address, probably in our next meet or whatever, cause mental health is serious too.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's actually on the list, man, of the next thing that I wanted to talk to you about. Yeah, ain't got something Great mind. Yeah, I actually wrote a list of everything that I wanted to talk about so I could start publishing this list so that the listeners can have an idea of what's coming up on the next episodes. So I actually titled it Mind Over Matter, because behind bars, we feel like a strong mind is the best thing we can have, but it's often to our detriment. You make yourself so hard and so detached, so averse to asking for help and stuff like that, that you end up suffering in silence and in carrying it with you on outside if you get that opportunity to come home. So, yeah, that's what we're gonna be talking about next week for everybody listening.
Speaker 4:
No doubt, no doubt, no doubt, man, cause you know that mental health thing is serious. But getting back on the father issues, like I really hope, I really hope, first of all, before the show is over, I wanna give a shout out to my girl, magic Shew. She knows who she is.
Speaker 1:
Yeah that's cool.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's a listener too, she's a listener.
Speaker 1:
Oh, that's what's up, man, thanks.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, actually I got a notation from this individual you know, sometime ago saying I heard you on the podcast. You know it was really nice, it was really helpful. So shout out to Magic Shew's man. Yeah, shout out to Magic.
Speaker 1:
Shew's, tell her to hit up our Facebook. Man, leave some love.
Speaker 4:
No question, hit up the Facebook, leave some love. Leave some love, for sure she's probably listening. What she probably heard is this podcast eventually, really good people man, beautiful people, that's what's up?
Speaker 4:
man, I'm an old family, beautiful people, man, beautiful people. But yeah, so I just wanna say for the mothers out there, you know, if the fathers are trying and putting their best foot forward there and showing the mission to be a better man and father for their child, give them a shot, give them a chance. I know it's hard, I get it, I understand. Give them a shot, though, you know, Let them and their child bond together, because you never know. You know tomorrow's promise to nobody. I mean, I'm 52 years old and I had my heart attacks at 50, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:
So, and I was one of the I thought I was one of the most healthiest guys on the planet worked out every day, got hoops, land track, worked out push-up, misfit competitions, you know you name it, I did it, and I still had severe heart attacks. So I wanna say take care of your health, take care of your mind, you know, and stay positive. You know what I'm saying At all times, or whatever. You know what I mean. So, yeah, it's this, oh, oh, oh. And before I forget one thing, one thing I forget with Big Brother is this too they have that fatherhoods initiative out there program too, that single fathers can go to to become better fathers if they really wanna be a father to their child and they have nowhere else to turn and they wanna be fathers, Go to fatherhoods initiative, look them up, Google them, but go to them. Really great organization.
Speaker 1:
You know I think I'm not sure on this man, so I hope don't nobody hold it against me if I'm wrong, but last year I ended up going to a music Soul Child concert out in Chicago and it was like the day after I got back he was here in Columbus doing a fatherhood speak. He was doing some program for black fathers and I wanted to go, but I literally just got back from vacation and I was like my job ain't gonna want me to call off, you know. So I didn't go, man, but that's what's up.
Speaker 1:
There is programs out there and me and Warren actually had just talked about this man where we was like a lot of times we get so immersed in that toxic masculinity and the bullshit we talk growing up as young black men where you don't ask for help and you be tough and stand on your own 10, whatever. You know that we don't even know that asking for help is an option anymore, you know. So all these programs that are out there that can help right around the corner, you know, and I just want to encourage people like if they come across this man, if they listen to it, like look for some help, Like it's really good programs out there that can help and it's really good for us as men, because most of the programs are directed at mothers. So you know, these programs that are directed at fathers, man, they're really good and they're rare, you know. When you look at the grand scheme of things it's only a few, but they're really good and they got really good programs and resources.
Speaker 4:
Most definitely, most definitely.
Speaker 4:
You'll be amazed though the turnaround rate of men that are actually wanting not forced to take the program and not taking it because they get good days or whatever, but they doing these programs because they want to do these programs, because they want to be better people, because they want to be better men, they want to change and they want to be a part of their child's life.
Speaker 4:
But before they can do that, I've actually heard a few of them say I can't be a better man in my child's life if I'm not a better man. I have to learn to be a man first before I can teach my son to become one. And to hear that come out of a kid's mouth nowadays and when I say a kid I mean I'm 52, so to hear a 23 year old kid talking like that, or even a 30 year old young man talking like that, you know that's, that's Like they say. Even if you can only change one, that's a start, you know, and that's a good thing, and that's why I always try to stay positive and be your influence on the positive side to the young brothers that come to the system, in which you really rarely see anymore, because so many older gentlemen, such as like my you have one minute remaining.
Speaker 4:
You know that they follow in the key instead of the kids following them. So that's a positive role model and, right there, something else we need we can use to work on too, man, but I enjoyed you. Thanks for having me. Big brother, you know, small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas. Until next time, brother, I love you. Tell the family I love them. Peace to all the listeners. I hope you enjoyed today's talk and, you know, give your insight, I'll look back.
Speaker 1:
What's up bro, alright, man, I love you man, be cool, be safe man and, as always you know, keep teaching man, keep preaching.
Speaker 4:
For sure Always One love bro, peace, peace.
Speaker 3:
Thank you for using GTO.
Speaker 2:
You can find us on Instagram and Twitter with the handle at lockdown2legacy, and on Facebook at the Lockdown to Legacy podcast. Thanks for listening.