Wise's World: Living Without Control

Imagine stepping into a world where every day is a battle for survival, where education and violence walk a razor-thin line. We take you behind the bars to uncover the harsh realities of the American prison system with an unflinching gaze. My brother Father Wise and I share our personal journey, revealing the diverse ways inmates navigate the treacherous waters of incarceration—from those seizing the chance for self-improvement to others succumbing to the darkness of violence and theft. We bear witness to the struggle and the faint glimmers of hope, such as the culinary arts program that offers a lifeline to a future beyond prison walls.

The weight of a prison sentence extends far beyond the individual—it ripples through families and the hearts of youth teetering on the precipice of life choices. I open up about the delicate act of protecting one's professional credentials amidst chaos and the profound impact mentoring can have on redirecting at-risk youth. Through anecdotes and hard-earned wisdom, we illustrate the power of experience and mentorship, showcasing how guiding the younger generation towards intellectual prowess can pave the way for a life rebuilt on knowledge rather than brute strength.

Navigating reentry into society presents its own maze of psychological and social obstacles. We explore the seismic shift in attitudes among those leaving different incarceration levels and the erosion of the once-sacred convict code. The complexities of reintegration are laid bare as we discuss the survival behaviors that become ingrained and the challenges these present when reuniting with loved ones. Join us for a poignant conversation that promises no punches pulled, just an honest reflection on the journey from lockdown to laying the foundations for a new legacy.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

Welcome to Lockdown to Legacy stories from the inside out. I'm your host, remy Jones.

Speaker 2: 0:25

And I'm co-host Debbie Jones. We are a husband and wife team here to bring you the real life stories, experiences and questions around the American criminal justice system. We do advise discretion with this podcast. I think we should put that out there first and foremost. Yes, we are going to talk about experiences that happen inside the prison system, outside of prison systems. We will use language that might be offensive, but we intend to keep it real. And if that's not for you, we totally understand, but please do what's best for your listening ears.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Oh, we're about to keep it real, son. Our goal of this podcast is to share the inside realities of the American prison and criminal justice system, from precharges all the way to post-release, from the voices of those who've experienced it firsthand, including me.

Speaker 2: 1:12

That's right, we're going to get into it.

Speaker 3: 1:30

What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Lockdown, the Legacy. Of course, this episode is another special one because this is actually another of the wisest world episodes, so you know what that means. I got my brother Fyla Wise that's going to join us this episode and I wanted to talk about something a little on the flip side of what we normally talk about. Usually we're talking about what happens when you come home from prison, what happens leading up to prison, what happens with recidivism and all this other stuff programming but really I don't feel like we're talking about just the reality of being in prison, as somebody in prison, and what that day-to-day is.

Speaker 3: 2:14

You know how to bit that's what we call it how to do your time, how to bit, whether you're one of those people that constantly go to programming. You're constantly playing sports, you're constantly playing cards. You know I play D&D, I play Magic Gathering. I did pretty much everything. I went to college, I worked out and I mean it's some people that literally haven't grown up yet. They're mad and all they do is fight. That's how they pass their time, or they steal or something like that.

Speaker 3: 2:46

So the reality is that whether you're one of those people or whether you're just somebody else that has to share space with those people. You know it's a challenge. It's a challenge every day If you're trying to stay out of trouble and you are faced with one of those people, or if you're faced with an asshole, co or whatever it is. Everybody has their own goal that they're striving towards, whether that's early release, parole boards, you know, just staying out of trouble, trying to get their security level dropped, whatever it is, I mean hell, trying to avoid gangs, like really you got trouble coming from every direction, whether you're one of the people in the trouble or just trying to avoid the trouble. So this episode me and Wise just going to have a little casual conversation about that Yo enjoy.

Speaker 4: 3:40

What's up bro? Yo what's good. What's good Ain't not much. Man, how are you? I'm good. I'm good One day, step at a time. You already know, bro, already know Everything with you in the free world.

Speaker 3: 3:53

Oh man, Everything cool. Man, what's been going on with you?

Speaker 4: 3:57

Slow for the bone man. You know a lot of moving around. You know how this jail thing goes. A lot of moving around One spot to the next, one dorm to the next, for whatever reason they feel necessary to do. Other than that, though, my head is up, I'm in culinary art school doing my thing, you know, trying to make you man.

Speaker 3: 4:16

Yeah, that's what's up Now. You had told me about being moved around a lot, man, and that's. I mean, that's kind of got a lot to do with what I wanted to talk about today, Like just the reality of being in there and the way the day-to-day function is at each different security level, you know. But first, before we even get to that man, I want to hear about this culinary arts thing, because I ain't really heard much about that.

Speaker 4: 4:46

Oh yeah, the culinary art school is just nice, man, you know it's like. The only thing is like we can't do anything hands on right now because the mess hall is being, you know, fixed. You know it's being re-innovated, so it's like they over there fixing it up or whatever. So right now everything is strictly bookmarked, which is good anyway, because it's a need to know basis when you're dealing with culinary arts. People think that culinary arts is just all about the cooking and things of that nature or whatever. But it's so much more deeper than that. You know, You've got to learn measurements, You've got to learn food born illnesses, You've got to learn all kinds of so many things to the fact of learning culinary arts. You know that comes with it, Whatever.

Speaker 3: 5:30

It does come with the program, the program. Y'all do any safe serve certified or something?

Speaker 4: 5:37

Yeah, yep. So so when we graduate in six months, we get a safe certified certificate that lasts five years, but it has to be renewed every five years. But we also, in terms of that, get we also get a food handler's license that lasts and stays with you forever, so you don't have to ever get that renewed. It'll always be in your file wherever you go. What? Else do I say so?

Speaker 4: 6:05

it's a really good program and for those and for those in search for, like, diplomas and things of that nature. You know, they also have it worked out to the point where you can go through culinary arts or you can go through I want to say, not electrical, I can't remember the other one oh, carpentry, carpentry, excuse me, carpentry. And they actually have a program set up to the point where you can get your high school diploma through them by graduating their courses. But you've got to put the work in though, but they're on test that you take, yeah, so it's good. It's good.

Speaker 3: 6:46

I mean, in my opinion, man, that makes it more valuable and making it more enticing for people to actually go. Because I used to be a tutor for the 21 and under for the GD Right. It's mandatory if you 21 or under to go and get in the GD classes. But don't nobody want to be there. Because, I mean to be honest, if you grew up in the streets, like getting a GD is like pointless, like it's not about to open up no doors for you in your head, you know it's like what if I get a GD, am I going to get a good job, like you know? But if they know that they got some skills and some certifications that back that GD, then why, why, why, why? Yeah, I'll go do that, you know, and they might be more willing to put in the work.

Speaker 4: 7:33

One thing with one thing with the Ohio, ohio's penal system, is the fact that more institutions need to have more vocationals inside the institutions. Because we all know and understand well that when you don't have any type of skill sets under your belt and you come to prison, especially at a young age, and then you leave without any skill sets under your belt, then it's that much. It's just that much worse, because not every citizen rate is going to continue to keep going around and around and around. And then nobody, they don't even care because they already this generation today. You know they're a good group of kids, man, but stuff they just so lost. They have no morals, they have no values, they have no principles and they have no respect, not even for themselves.

Speaker 4: 8:21

And they're sad because if they had vocationals in prison then they would have something to look forward to, because now they're actually doing something hands on while going to school and getting to education at the same exact time. But when they go home they now have something that they know how to do, like yo, I know how to fix a house. Yo, I know how to do electrical work. Yo, I know how to do plumbing, and they're proud of that because they learned a trade. So they're not going to be going back to renovate, back to society, to just do the same things that they used to do and that they used to doing. That. The only thing that they know how to do is whatever they do, you understand?

Speaker 3: 9:02

I mean I try to stress that a lot because I mean I started college and stuff before I came to prison but I didn't really take it serious for real. I mean, you know, when you in the streets it's like everything moving so fast, like I was half-assed in it. You know, I failed some classes, dropped some classes, I didn't really care. So I got to the joint to that point where the state was paying for me to go to college. All of a sudden I mean I was, that was five years in so all of a sudden I had that discipline and that desire like I can't go home. The way I came in and I got to say, man, I tell everybody that college and getting my CDL while in prison changed the whole way I operated out here, because it's easy to go back to the streets and the people that you was hanging around when you ain't got shit, you ain't got shit, they ain't got shit. Everybody fit in, you know. But when you come home, like when I came home, and I was like, man, listen, I'm trying to get a job ASAP my mom was like no, I'll just take your time. I'm like hell, no, I wanna got a job. They try to play me. But I knew what I had and I knew what I was worth at that time. See, when you ain't got nothing, you don't know what you worth for real, and when you don't know what you worth, you just be quick to be like, well, fuck it. Then you know, because you don't really know what possibilities you got. So you be like, fuck it. I ain't even gonna try Exactly, but, like when I had my CDL and that first job tried to play me, I was like, bro, I got a CDL, I'll go drive a truck right now. So I called them, went to orientation before I even quit the job and then, once I went to orientation and found out I got it, I just went here and was like yo, this, my two week notice, I'm cool. And boom, I was out there driving this truck.

Speaker 3: 10:51

But the responsibility that came with the CDL was something that I had to always protect and everybody that mentored me in the truck driving they was always like protect your license. You know it's stuff that you could do that'll make you lose your license forever and your license is your livelihood. So, and that's the same thing for, you know, being a nurse or being a doctor, or being a brick, a mason or, you know, a car salesman, a mechanic, anything Like. It's certain stuff you could do where you could lose your certification, you know. So you got to protect it. And so when you get that mentality like this is valuable, I got to protect it.

Speaker 3: 11:35

All of a sudden, you like, like me, I'd be like bro, you know, I still fuck with a couple of dudes that still fuck around the streets. But I'd be like, hey, don't bring that shit in my car, bro. Like, if we gonna hang out, I'm gonna meet you there, you know. And you know, oh, you want to go to the store. Well, shit, I just run and get it. You know, like it ain't really a lot that I'm willing to do, that would jeopardize my livelihood. And so, just like this, you know, you get your culinary arts certification or anything like that. You come home and you have something valuable that you have to protect and by protecting it, just by protecting it alone, you end up not going back and being around a lot of the bullshit.

Speaker 4: 12:22

Right, exactly, exactly. And you know it's something. It's also something like, see, so everything is not for everybody, and I'm sad to say, but true, but even education, when it comes to education, a lot of these kids, man, believe it or not, both of you already know because you're two of them, but a lot of them are smart, a lot of them could pass it with flying colors, but it's just like they don't want it, like it's just not what they want At that particular time in their life when they needed the most, when it's crucial, when it's most needed. You feel me Because, like I say, like we both know and understand, they're so used to. All they know is the streets, the streets, the streets, the streets, the streets, the streets. And peer pressure, you know, brings a pause to their growth and development, because now they feel that they don't want to be the oddball out. And we know and understand too, when we look at today's society, to the, at a closer look to our youth, that the un-norm is new norm, you know, and that's sad. But it also takes us as grown men, literally, and grown women, to like to do the best we can in pulling them up, because, even though these are not our biological seeds, though our children. We still need to have these talks with them, like me. This is another reason why they caught me, father wise, because I'm always pulling the shorties to the side when I see the ones that have the potential as well as the ones that don't. But at the same time, I pull them to the side and I give them pull-ups and I let them know like look that one cool, that wasn't cool.

Speaker 4: 14:00

There was a better way of going about doing it. If you do it this way, you ain't always going to use violence, so you ain't always got to be so quick to use your hands, so use your mind sometime. You ain't got to be so quick to cuss the CO's out. Use your mind. Learn your pin gang. Get your pin gang down. You know what I mean. Get you know what I'm saying. Get your education and beat them with your mind. You ain't got to beat them with your physical aspect every single time, you know, because you're not going to win like that all the time.

Speaker 3: 14:29

You know, it's two things that go with that, bro.

Speaker 4: 14:32

It's like I try to do the best I can to them, but you know it's a uphill battle, but I'm willing to fight though.

Speaker 3: 14:36

Yeah, it's two things that go with that, and one of them is somebody in like your position, my position, somebody especially on the inside, somebody that done a lot of time. You know, doing a lot of time usually comes with a lot of wisdom, you know. And so, like you said, you pulling up on dudes, like, hey, you know, figure out a better way, and that goes. You know that old saying each one, teach one, you know, pass it on on, because the younger generation in prison is wild and they the same way on the streets. Man, like I ain't gonna lie, I used to think, you know, before I left prison I used to say like I'm not afraid to cross an invisible line.

Speaker 3: 15:19

You know I'm not going out there to fuck around, but the only way I would do some shit is if they brought it past my doorstep. But I'd be seeing these young dudes out here and I'd be like these motherfuckers is riding around in real life with weaponry that you see on Call of Duty a fucking pistol with a 51 clip. You know a pistol that slide into a jacket, that make it an automatic rifle. I'm like man, hell. No, these niggas are doing man. They killing people left and right for absolutely no reason. Nigga winked at my girlfriend at a party. Dude, try to holler at my sister at school like they killing dudes. So when they get to the joint they mad unguided and it's good that somebody like pull up on them. Like, hey, you know, figure out a better way. And it's not all about physical intimidation to be the best or, you know, beating somebody up, nothing like that.

Speaker 3: 16:17

Like I had a little young dude when I was in there. Man, he wanted the right poetry but he didn't want to tell nobody because he thought it was weak. But the dudes that he was afraid to tell he could beat up all of them for real, right, right, right. Like when you start thinking about what it is to be a real nigga, you know, with air quotes like first, be true to yourself, be real to yourself, you know. And then also on the younger dudes side, man, like you were saying education ain't for everybody.

Speaker 3: 16:50

And I learned that myself, man, because when I first went to college out here I was man for real. All through high school and college out here I was getting like mediocre to bad grades. When I got to prison and I had that real thirst for knowledge. That's when I was getting straight A's. When I came home and I went to OSU, I was getting mediocre grades again. But what I realized was I didn't have a desire to have a degree. I made the goal like, yeah, I want to get a degree because I want to be the first of my family and stuff. But when it came down to a for I was like a degree ain't going to help me, you know, it ain't going to help me make more money.

Speaker 4: 17:33

You have one minute remaining.

Speaker 3: 17:37

It ain't going to help me get to where I want to be. So what I realized was I had a desire to learn. A desire to learn and a desire to get a formal education, or two different things. You know, college and just being a lifelong learner is two different things.

Speaker 4: 17:57

Indeed, it is. Indeed it is, but you transform it from a boy to a man, and that's one of the responsibilities and the beginning of manhood is to know that you're tired of being a boy and it's time to be a man. So you see the responsibility, the justice, responsibilities that need to be handled, and so now you take the initiative to move you, to put your best foot forward. Now I'll be right back. All right, bro, thank you for using GTL.

Speaker 3: 18:24

All right, so, as you guys know, it's just these 15 minute phone calls, so we're going to wait for why I have to call right back and we're going to continue the conversation.

Speaker 4: 18:40

Talk to me. I talk back, brother. What's good?

Speaker 3: 18:42

Yeah, what's up, man, welcome back. Hey. So for this episode, man, I want to kind of talk about some of the realities in prison, because we talk about a lot about what it's like after you come home or what it's like during the holidays or something like that. But what's it like day to day? You know like you was talking about you just got moved a few times in a room. You know like the reality is that you're not in control when you're in prison. You know as much as you want to be, you're at the mercy of the you know institution for it.

Speaker 4: 19:20

See, and that's what we need to know and understand too that when we in here and a lot of the things that we get away with, just like in society, a lot of the things that you know okay, let's take it back to childhood on a quick side, when we used to think that we used to get away with things, and your mother or your father or both used to tell you like yo listen, I've been there, I've done that, like you're not getting away with that. If I tell you to go left and you go right, you're going to fall into a ditch. It's just that simple. But the bottom line is you're never in control because somebody always has to guide you, and so even in here, that's why you know they call it prison, you know, and they call it. You know they call it rehabilitation for a reason, but at the same time they took the rehabilitation part and then turned it into a negative. The rehabilitation is supposed to have been the positive, but they took that and turned it into a negative. The system did, and it's sad because it only triggers these younger generation to even act more wilder and more crazier and be more ignorant than they already are. And it's sad because the older generation, such as myself, like I, was cool.

Speaker 4: 20:31

So I work hard to stay out of the way, to stay out of trouble, to do everything necessary to stay on that straight and narrow and move to a better location meaning a better pod or a better unit or whatever so that I can get myself together and focus more, sort of like an honor dorm or honor pod or whatever you want to call it nowadays. But the fact of the matter is I'm here in this pod and I'm staying out the way, I'm doing everything right and exact or whatever, and I'm doing good and me and a couple of more guys and then they just uproot us and throw us right back in the pits and it's like, why are you all doing this? Oh well, we wanted to try this right here, you know, and move all of the STG dudes meaning the you know dudes that are affiliated in gangs and known on record and the most trouble makers or whatever and we wanted to put them down in this unit so we can watch them. So you take me, as well as other individuals who've been out of the way for the last few years, and you throw us back into the pit. Everything is happening that, so you just jeopardize it. You just jeopardize one the fact that I've been doing good, trying to get my security level dropped and you have to stay out of trouble. You can't catch no RIB tickets Right, so you jeopardize in that. And you jeopardize them on freedom, because you put me back amongst the wolves. Now, not to say that we can't handle being in this situation, but we've grown and developed so much to the point that we've escalated above and beyond that. We want to be past this no-transcript.

Speaker 4: 22:13

But then I had to take it back to the fact that. Think about it and I say, yo, this is their doing, but it's also a test from God too at the same time. And I have to look at it that way, because if everything happens for divine purpose and a reason and if you put me back here, then it has to be a divine purpose I have to have a server purpose and that purpose that I choose to serve that I feel that came from above, is the fact that me snatching these little ones up when I can and trying to save their life by having talks with them and opening their eyes so that they can see things for what it is and not what it appears to be. They show them that there is a better way. I even had to challenge it. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3: 22:53

No, go ahead what you was saying.

Speaker 4: 22:56

No, I even had to challenge a couple of them one time. You know, they get on their high horse and they get to talking their gangsta, gangsta, whatever. Whatever you know, and you know me, bro, I'm quiet, I'm laid back, lay low, I'm still low, I'm humble, or whatever. But then a couple of them you know they get crazy or whatever get bit out of shape for no reason. So I challenged them. I said, listen, it's five of y'all, I'll fight each one of y'all and if any one of y'all whooped me, I'll give you $100. But if I whooped y'all, y'all got to go to school. They lifted me, like what. But do you know that man, one of those guys none of them took me up on that challenge, not one of them.

Speaker 3: 23:38

Yeah, that's dope. Now what?

Speaker 3: 23:40

I'm trying to say is, once you get into the bit man, once you get well into the bit, hopefully you start finding new ways to respond. Because that's the whole, that's the only thing you in control of in there. You know you not in control of the young dudes trying to test you or the administration moving you know bed moves or anything like that and what you in control of is how you respond to it. And at first, you know, when I started getting older in prison, I started seeing a lot more younger dudes come in behind me. At first my growth was all right. I understand that I'm older and you know I may not have the stamina that I used to have. I got wisdom and battle tested. You know. I got you know the fight IQ. But what I have now is an understanding that as soon as this fight starts I got to finish it ASAP, which makes me a whole lot more dangerous, you know, because I'm not trying to show off for nobody.

Speaker 3: 24:47

I ain't trying like and that's what made it bad. It's like you know, I done been to a level three and work my way down. By working my way down, I'd have had to, you know, re solidify a reputation and try to keep it hushed so I don't go back up. But at the same time, it's like, without fighting, I had to make them understand like, listen, we ain't gonna do this Because the young dudes think that if you quiet or if you not quick to fight, you weak.

Speaker 3: 25:17

I'm trying to say like, bruh, I'm trying to help you and me, you know you know exactly because I said it before, when I was fresh off the streets, man, I thought I was like this shit, we know, when it came to getting some work, like we can go on the back wall right now, like it was, it was any time, like let's go get some work right now. But when I seen a dude get you know some Vaseline and sugar cubes, put in the microwave for 30 minutes and then threw in his face, I was like oh this shit different. You know what I see. When I see, when I was in the hole and I seen dude throw the glock, dookie on the guard, I was like oh this this shit way different than just being on the streets and catching some hands, you know.

Speaker 3: 26:08

So maybe all the magic shades yeah like all types of shit Like and when I say that you know I was talking about like security levels. It's different threats at different security levels. When we was at level three, I don't care if you hated somebody, you respected them because you knew that you could be physically maimed or die. I don't see any state troopers coming here and yellow tape off somebody's sale after a fight. Yeah, um. But then when we got to level two, it was like okay, everybody want to fight, but it ain't all. It ain't all shanks and locker boxes and all this other shit, this weapons. We just fighting more often.

Speaker 4: 26:45

So when I got to level one, not to cut you off, it was like. But they just came with a new rule, right. So it just came with a new rule. So because you know, the new thing is crashing on dudes, that's the new thing in the system where I will pay you and you are going crash on somebody, just crashing, in other words, just catching from the blind side and just hurt them real bad because they don't see it coming Right. So it's been so much of that going on. Now they came with some new, some new rules now and would stipulate the fact that if you crash on somebody, meaning that you blindside them, that they put you in a hole for six months and they raise your.

Speaker 4: 27:29

They raise your level. You get commissary visits, packages, phone calls. All of that's dead for six months after you get out the hole.

Speaker 3: 27:42

Oh, you're on restriction after you get out the hole.

Speaker 4: 27:45

Restricted, yeah, and if you end, because a lot of dudes that do it, most of them are going home. You know they short timers, so naturally you're going to go home on PRC. So if you have PRC stipulations, guess what? Now they're adding new sanctions to the PRC stipulations that you already have put in place waiting on you to come. Now you just added more to that. So they're not playing, they're trying to really, they really try to knock down on that problem.

Speaker 3: 28:12

They're not going to send you up to come back, then they send you up for your next bit, exactly.

Speaker 4: 28:17

Exactly, exactly. And these little ones, they'd be like oh, I don't give a, I don't give a fuck about that, they come with that little bullshit. But I had to add well, again, I had to add a couple of them. What makes you, what's so? Fly about crashing on somebody, though that don't see it coming, though Whatever happened, to give a shooting a fair one with them all fucking like letting them get a fair one.

Speaker 4: 28:45

But, needless to say, this is the level three mentality. Level four, mentality, level five, mentality, whatever it is, different levels to this. And it's like you have to learn to educate. We have to learn to educate ourselves along the way, because when you try that you had enough, then you're, then you try that you had enough, just like anything else in life. And so when you start coming down these levels comprised of fours, the threes, or from threes, or from fours, the threes, the twos, or from threes, the twos, the ones you see the difference in the, in the, in the, in the, in your surroundings when you're in the penitentiaries and the different penitentiaries at different levels.

Speaker 4: 29:23

And, like I said, level twos may a little bit be a little bit more rowdy. Rowdy because the younger generation have taken over completely. So with so many young dudes, so many young black males in prison today, it's sad to see if it really is, you know. But they have no guidance, they have no structure, they have no, they have no hope they have. They don't have anything. So I do the best I can, along with some more brothers, like yourself used to do, and I try to pull them in and I try to help them as best I can so that they can see things in a better way. You know what I'm saying. Like you say, at the end of the day, we have no control and the only thing they try to do is continuously pamper us with, you know, even with the TV and different things that they allow us to have. That's just a pampering, to try to calm us down, like because they need for us to have something to do.

Speaker 3: 30:13

Speaking of, like no control, like you know it's. It's different at every security level at every institution, but you really have to learn how to survive all over again once you get your security change, because it's not the same from a level three or level four or level five or level two or level one, like when I came, when I was on level three, you know, speaking of control, like if you wanted to go to the phone, like it might be a certain gang that control each phone, you know. So you might just think, oh, I'm about to go over here and happen a phone real quick. And you think like, okay, you know, ain't nobody in line, I'm going to call back. And somebody pulled tight Like, hey, man, what you doing on our phone.

Speaker 3: 30:56

You like you like what you know, because you don't understand how to survive around there, certain people that control certain things and the CEOs might see it and just turn an eye, you know, turn a blind eye. But then you get down to level two. You so used to that, you so used to having a lock and a sock ready, a shank, ready, some baby oil, whatever you know. You get down to level two and you you start like damn, okay, dudes walking around and flip flops, headphones on, like back to the you know, sleeping with their head towards the aisle. You like man, what the fuck going on?

Speaker 2: 31:31

You know you get down to level one.

Speaker 3: 31:32

You like okay, everybody just want to talk crazy to me, Like I want to smack their mouth. So you have to like learn, like okay, like calm down, Like this ain't the place for that. You know, I just talked to one of my homies and he was like man, I hate it in this institution because it's just so soft. I was like, bro, you got to, you got to calm it down.

Speaker 4: 31:53

Man, tom, yeah, you got to, you see, and when you used to being a certain kind of wait for so many years, it's like okay. So it's like it's like my mentality versus an individual's mentality coming from a level one that ended in a level one for 10 years, and then I'm coming from a level three after 10 years, coming to the street, right. So his mentality is going to be more humble, more you know, more more sufficient, more understanding. My attitude is going to be like you're looking at, don't touch me, and everything is going to be like, like aggressive behavior.

Speaker 2: 32:32

No matter what you're looking at me.

Speaker 4: 32:34

You have one minute remaining. Even playing space, everything's aggressive, aggressive, but yeah, there's no control. We have no control. We have no control over the system.

Speaker 3: 32:50

Well, I mean, don't get me wrong, we always trying to take control. I mean, once you get a certain reputation like you know, when I was talking about the old law dudes, like they keep order for real, like it used to be, like if you wanted to do some grimy shit and you knew somebody of a certain level of respect live next to that dude you would go and ask them permission, Like hey man.

Speaker 4: 33:15

This is between a convict and an inmate. There are no more convicts anymore. The system wipes us out. It just wipes us out. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 33:26

Yeah, I remember dudes coming to me like, hey, man, I'm trying to hit up your neighbor, like is it cool? And I'm like hell, no, man, keep that shit from around here. They like, oh, come on, man, you know I pay you if you let me hit this lick. Like that's how it used to be and you know now it's.

Speaker 4: 33:41

Thank you for using Gtl.

Speaker 3: 33:45

But yeah, though it's like I don't even remember what I was saying.

Speaker 4: 33:50

I mean, you know, we were talking about how the respect factor goes when DeBlois came over and actually can they do a hit.

Speaker 3: 33:57

Yeah, I mean, that's how it used to be. It was like you know somebody coming as permission because they knew that you know the fallout is in your area. You know you like no man, keep that shit from around here. You know they they be like, oh, I pay you, I pay you if you let me hit this lick. I mean some dudes like all right, you know, some dudes like hell, no, like you know, and it's not even a factor of like you know you protecting that person. It's really just like you know, it's kind of like a prison neighborhood watch, like man, you know this, this my area.

Speaker 3: 34:32

It's like this, my area, you know. Or even like being on a block on the streets, you know. If a certain gang control a certain area or something, they be like, oh no, no, we can't go over there and do this because so-and-so control that area, you know right. So you know, I used to tell the, the deputy warden when I was still in grafting man. I used to tell her like hey, you trying to make all these changes around here and you making them too fast, you know, because you just trying to ride out all the old laws or anybody that got more than five years to do, you just trying to ride them out to another prison and fill this with a whole bunch of young short timers. You know, and I'm like that shit ain't gonna work because you gonna turn this bitch into a gladiator camp If you ain't got no old law that's in the mix to kind of, and they don't understand that they don't understand.

Speaker 4: 35:23

What they still realize is, you see, now back in the day, right, like definitely wardens and wardens or whatever the case may be, like they would have they probably wouldn't do it themselves but had intel to come in and ask questions like you know, what can we do to make this spot calm down or make it better or whatever the case may be they actually listen to that shit. You know what I'm saying and like. So when you had to talk with the deputy warden or whatever the case, and you was letting her know, like what you doing ain't gonna work, like yo you put in, you just sending all of the old guys up out of here as grandfather, then then you sending all of these making this camp a youth camp and it's going to turn into a gladiator school. You have to think one or two things right. It's either that's what they want to happen, or they go, or they don't want it. In the blind, they don't know what's going to happen until it does and they don't listen. But if they took the initiative to listen, then a lot of these institutions will be a lot better than what they are for real.

Speaker 4: 36:28

But another sad thing about the penitentiary again today is that it's so extremely overpopulated with young males, like young males, I'm talking 18, 19, 20. And they in here doing they doing football numbers and they don't care. And it's a pandemic with this, with this, with this drug thing going on, with this new type drug they got going on. It's like all of these babies down there I call them babies because they're so young to me 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. And everybody's hooked on this road spraying and setting all and all the road spraying to K2.

Speaker 4: 37:11

That flows through the penitentiaries and stuff like that, you know. Well you remember when I was in there.

Speaker 3: 37:16

I think it was like 2016, 2017, where it was like I don't know. It was like in one week it was like 10 overdoses on the fentanyl and they had like the whole place locked down. They had the dogs in and all this other shit. I was like man, but for real, I think the problem is that the deputy warrants and warrants ain't career like law enforcement no more. They're not. They're not career prison officials no more. You got these young dudes that want to just get in and fly up the ranks and they ain't really been involved in it Because, like you said, I remember being in level three and they coming in like, hey, what can we do? Like shit started to get out of hand and we noticed it. So what can we do? Instead of just being like we're going to respond with an iron fist Like nah, because now we think we hard, so we ain't just going to let you punk us.

Speaker 3: 38:18

And I remember they came in and was like some dudes gave some suggestions and they was like all right, well, we're going to start the movie channel. We're going to rotate movies Every Tuesday, we're going to switch it up, we're going to play a movie at this time, at this time and at this time, and it was like, oh okay, on this day it's going to be nothing but new releases. Next thing you know, you got everybody sitting in their cell waiting for the movie to come on. Ain't nobody trying to do nothing bullshit? And that's a great example of how somebody was like hey man, instead of trying to crack down, why don't we go talk to them and see what we can do to make dudes chill out?

Speaker 4: 38:54

Exactly. But you know, a lot of times when they call themselves doing that with these community meetings, town hall meetings, they call them, you know, and then they ask these questions. And they ask these questions and In regards to the answers that we, that they're supposed to take heed to, as far as us telling them everything that's not right and exact to the point where, you know, if they listen to us and they follow, they follow what we say that it can make things better for the institution as well as a safer environment. You know what I'm saying. Don't get me wrong. Prison is going to always be prison, no matter what. But at the same time, don't come to us and piss on our head and tell us it's raining, because you know that you really don't want our help or our advice. Don't come bothering us like that and try to find out solutions to that or answers to a solution that you really don't want the answers to.

Speaker 3: 39:57

And that's all. I'm saying of course that's considered. You put your. I said we seen a heaven too where you put in your suggestions and you see everybody else put in their suggestions and out of single thing change. You don't hear nothing else about it.

Speaker 4: 40:14

And then one thing that I want to put out there too, and I pray, I pray that somebody in Albany not Albany, but I'm thinking about New York, but Columbus is listening, because when Columbus walks through any institution or prison, they always try to convene for us to be locked down at the time that they bring them through certain areas, so that we can't pull them to the side and talk to the bigger weeks that are up in Columbus. That'll take the initiative to really listen, because some of the people will listen.

Speaker 3: 40:46

Oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 40:46

And they don't want that to happen.

Speaker 3: 40:49

And we as the inmates, we not stupid. We know who the people are that are listening before they even step on the premises. Exactly. So you write a lot of times when the people from central office in the capital, columbus, when they come and walk through a prison, everybody locked down and they'll take them to a specific block that they think is a safe block from the being, they think that the dudes are happy and not going to complain too much and they think that you know and they be like, okay, we're going to leave these guys out and we're going to take them on a tour.

Speaker 3: 41:22

Of this block it's the clean one, it's the one that got all the stuff working in it. Ain't nothing broken? Exactly. And so when they walk through, dudes just sitting there playing chess, playing Scrabble, you know kicking it. They ain't saying nothing, they ain't doing nothing, they don't even want to talk to them. Really, they don't even know who they are probably. But you know, that's one block out of the whole institution. Everybody else is like man, it's damn roof leaking and they be locking us down all the time. And you know they done tore my shit up and damaged my property, or they, you know a lot of things, yo a lot of things, man, but yeah, for us, hello, yeah, I'm that.

Speaker 4: 42:04

Yeah, but as far as you know, getting back on that control issue, you know, like they, they tend to put us in positions sometimes to think that we are in control when we're really not, you know. But they quick to let you know too that you're not in control, because with a, with a quick, with the, with the punch of a button I'm gonna set me down with a punch of a button they can stop your visits, stop anything they want to stop. Yeah, the click of a button. You understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 42:40

I just try to say that they wanted to.

Speaker 4: 42:41

right now they can cut me off, huh.

Speaker 3: 42:44

I used to try to say that all the time, like, like you said, visits, like they, for no reason and no warning. They could just be like, nah, you ain't got no visits, no more, they can cut your phone call off in the middle of it. All right, your own phone restriction. Or you know, like you said, they just move your your, your bed location. How many times in the last couple of weeks?

Speaker 4: 43:08

For the last week and a half I didn't move four times.

Speaker 3: 43:11

There's some time you sell in, they like, nah, nah, we changed our mind, you ain't got no control. So I used to tell people, like, when it comes to the level of not having control down, tom Malt, like a rule 21,. You know if you've been in prison. You know in Ohio what a rule 21 is. It is the most basic catch all rule ever and it's a disobeying of a direct order.

Speaker 3: 43:32

That and out of place is like probably on every ticket you'll ever get, because it's the only one that you just can't not get found not guilty of, because anybody can say anything. They can walk up to you and be like hey, right here in the middle of the day room with everybody was standing around strip naked. You like man, the fuck out of here. They go like, all right, cuff him up, right, you know, and you ain't know why, you get the strip Nothing. You just like man, I ain't doing that shit, all right, we're disobeying as a direct order. We're going to go ahead and lock him up. We just going to make that stick until we can find something else while he in there.

Speaker 3: 44:08

On disobeying as a direct order, we're going to go and tear shit up Like. This is the level of lack of control that we're subjected to on the inside If they be, like a child, supposed to be at noon for lunch and they don't serve that shit till 5.30,. So what, like it's nothing you can do. It's nothing you can do, you know 5.30, they come around with a baloney bag. Right, right.

Speaker 4: 44:38

Or just a peanut butter and jelly, that's it.

Speaker 3: 44:40

Yeah, you know. So I mean, when you think about people in prison, most people out here don't think about people in prison. They just think, ah, they did a crime, they should go do the time. They don't think about the conditions of doing time, they don't think about the dangers and trying to stay out the way, trying to rebuild yourself and rehabilitate yourself. And then you got danger from the little young dudes, the inmates, or the power happy CEO that just had a bad day. You know, they don't know about the struggles of really Right.

Speaker 4: 45:19

And so and let's get more in depth on that for a second, because it's like so for our loved ones out there in the world mainly our women, but family members period, when we tend to act out a certain kind of way with aggression, it's not because we actually want to, or we do it in a form of disrespecting you, because we can, or anything of that nature.

Speaker 4: 45:45

It's the fact that we have to learn to adapt to our surroundings, and then part of adapting to our surroundings causes us to become more aggressive to a lot of situations, because that's how you have to respond. In certain places and certain penitentiaries, you have to respond with aggressiveness, and then it just becomes that aggressive behavior becomes a part of you. I don't mean to be aggressive, but I come off as being aggressive all the time, and so what I want to say is for those who love it, who love us and still have their hooks in us out there, to please be more understanding and patient and just when we come off like that, be patient and just let us know like hey, tone it down a little bit, calm down, relax. This is me you talk to. Just don't be so quick to take it to heart and just be like who the fuck is you talking to? What the fuck? Because that's going to make matters worse.

Speaker 3: 46:42

Yeah, communication. The communication is better.

Speaker 4: 46:46

We don't.

Speaker 3: 46:49

I mean, that's really something that we kind of lack on the inside is communication skills. I mean, because, if you think about it, the people that we need to communicate with the most are the staff, the administrators and stuff like that. But it's a huge barrier where you're not allowed to talk to certain people unless you got office hours. And I give mad respect, man, because this is some people that I know in there and I ain't going to throw their names out, but it's some people some case managers, some unit managers, some captains.

Speaker 4: 47:25

You have one minute remaining.

Speaker 3: 47:30

Where they was like the most approachable people ever they had. Sit there and kick it with you, man. I've seen one of the captains come in and play chess with a duel one time. It was just sitting there chopping it up with everybody, like you said, asking like what's going on? Like y'all cool, y'all need anything. And everybody was just sitting there, cool man. They demoted his ass so quick. Actually, no, actually no, he was a major. He was a major and they demoted him to captain but he was doing stuff that made the prison chill out. You know, he was actually. He ain't have to worry about no prison snitch, he just sat down and talked to dudes. So hey, but look, man, we wrapping up, man. I appreciate you, bro, I appreciate you. I appreciate you.

Speaker 4: 48:11

I appreciate you anytime, man, anytime, and to the listeners, thank you. Thank you for listening. Keep tuning in, man. Keep tuning in and getting the good word, man.

Speaker 3: 48:19

Facts this is another episode of WISES WORLD.

Speaker 4: 48:24

You already know the great father of the wise First time world though, baby, we trying to make it better, right.

Speaker 3: 48:28

Oh, yeah, each one teach one. Each one teach one right on bro.

Speaker 4: 48:31

Thank you for using GTL.

Speaker 2: 48:42

The lockdown to legacy podcast is proud to be a part of the bus sprout podcast community network. Lockdown to legacy is recorded at co-hatch in their lovely audio file room. Thanks for your scholarship. Audio engineering is done by our very own Remy Jones. You can reach us with any feedback, questions, comments or share the love by emailing stories at lockdown, the number two legacycom, stories at lockdown to legacycom. You can reach out there too for a free sticker, and you can find us on Instagram and Twitter with the handle at lockdown to legacy and on Facebook at the lockdown to legacy podcast. Thanks for listening.