Warren's Wisdom: Redefining Success

Have you ever wondered how the echoes of a father's wisdom find their way through the iron bars of a prison cell? This episode of Lockdown the Legacy takes you on an intimate journey from the depths of incarceration to the hopeful horizons of freedom. Remie and our inside correspondent, Warren, weave together an unvarnished tapestry of life behind bars, personal evolutions from solitude to solidarity, and the vital role of community in shaping the passage to reentry.

As we navigate the intricate dynamics of fatherhood and upbringing, the conversation takes a turn towards the profound realizations that come with maturity and responsibility. Warren shares how the tough love of his past, once viewed as a hindrance, emerged as his compass in the most unforgiving of environments. It’s a deep dive into the essence of manhood, the shifting perceptions of success, and the pride in laying down new foundations for the family and community. The stories we share aren't just about survival; they're about thriving with purpose and integrity, setting the stage for the next generation.

Wrapping up, we celebrate the victories that come with dogged perseverance post-incarceration. These narratives spotlight the resilience needed to rewrite one’s story and it doesn’t stop there—we discuss the horizon-broadening power of travel and cultural exploration that widens our worldview, instilling a sense of global citizenship in ourselves and our children. If our candid discussions resonate with you, reach out and help us continue these pivotal conversations by sharing your thoughts and joining our vibrant community.

Transcript

Remie: 0:19

Welcome to Lockdown the Legacy stories from the inside out. I'm your host, remy Jones.

DJ: 0:25

And I'm co-host Debbie Jones. We are a husband and wife team here to bring you the real life stories, experiences and questions around the American criminal justice system. We do advise discretion with this podcast. I think we should put that out there first and foremost. Yes, we are going to talk about experiences that happen inside the prison system, outside of prison systems. We will use language that might be offensive, but we intend to keep it real. And if that's not for you, we totally understand, but please do what's best for your listening ears.

Remie: 0:56

Oh, we're about to keep it real, son. Our goal of this podcast is to share the inside realities of the American prison and criminal justice system, from pre-charges all the way to post-release, from the voices of those who've experienced it firsthand, including me.

DJ: 1:12

That's right, we're going to get into it.

Remie: 1:29

What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Lockdown the Legacy. Of course I'm your host, Remy Jones, and it is the first week of the month, so of course we got our episode with a call in from Warren, who is our inside correspondent. We're going to keep it pretty loose. This, you know, just a general conversation about what's been on our minds you know of which is, you know, recidivism from the inside point of view. So growth, you know growth from a mind state, paradigm shift, you know, from a meme mentality to a wee mentality, and then a couple other things. You know how conversation just tends to flow.

Remie: 2:16

So, with that being said, thanks again for tuning in and I hope you guys enjoy. Also, don't forget to write in. You know Warren has expressed his interest in answering some questions. If you guys got any questions that you want to post to Warren, or if you want to post to Wise, because we got a Warren's wisdom and Wise's world be sure to write in. You know, let us know and we will feature it on the episode. Give you a shout out if you want it. If you don't, we can also do that anonymously, all right.

Recording: 2:55

This is a prepaid debit call from.

Warren: 2:57

Warren.

Recording: 3:02

An inmate at the Graffin Correctional Institution To accept this call. Press zero To refuse this call. Hang up or press one To prevent calls from this. This call is from a DRC correctional facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Utilization of an unapproved application and three-way calls to communicate are strictly prohibited and a violation of DRC policy. Thank you for using GTL, hello.

Remie: 3:29

What's up, man? Man, I was just about to give up. Hey, I'm sorry, man, my phone was on DND on Do Not Disturb, by accident, man, I don't know what happened.

Warren: 3:40

Listen, I kind of figured that's what it was, because it can ring like two or three times. I said he probably got on that. Do Not Disturb thing.

Remie: 3:47

Yeah. So apparently last night I tried to, because my phone is scheduled to automatically go on Do Not Disturb as like a sleep mode, because you know I go to sleep early, and apparently I tried to set the alarm for this morning to get the kids up and I must have changed it for tonight to go on Do Not Disturb. And I'm sitting here like damn he usually on time man and I looked down and I seen that little alarm thing and I'm like, oh man, that's my bad, no problem no problem at all.

Recording: 4:26

So what's up?

Remie: 4:28

Oh man, nothing much, you know, just trying to be productive, you know, follow some lines and stuff, just can't sit down. Sit still, man.

Warren: 4:42

Yeah, that's kind of hard for you, ain't it?

Remie: 4:44

It is. It is I'm sick, but you know I'm still trying to contribute.

DJ: 4:52

Yeah.

Remie: 4:54

But I ain't doing too much though.

Warren: 4:56

You don't think you're contributing by getting better.

Remie: 5:00

I am getting better, man. I'm keeping up on my liquids, I'm resting, I done laid down and slept most of the day. You know, I just did a couple loads of laundry and took out the trash, that's it. But mostly, so mostly, I did the laundry because I had to wash my blankets and stuff, because I took all the blankets we got like three blankets that we keep in the living room and DJ decided to sleep on the couch because you know I'm sick, right, and she like where are all the blankets at? I'm like, oh my bad, I got all of them up in the bed with me so I don't went down and washed them all so she can have something to sleep on you know, but you know, other than that man, I'm cool.

Warren: 5:51

So I know you said that you out was doing Kwanzaa this year.

Remie: 5:56

Yeah, kwanzaa man was a hit. I loved it, the kids loved it, man, it was real cool because it was actually the younger kids. It was actually Ivan and Raylin that kind of leaned in the most I won't say leaned in the most, because Ruby and Junie really played a big part, but Ivan and Raylin were like running around telling people Happy Kwanzaa and Abarigani, which is Abarigani is how you greet people in Kwanzaa, it means what's the news? So you're supposed to answer with the principle of the day, which is, you know, emoja. I can't even think of it, man. But it's cool, though, to see the little ones, you know, greeting people like that and being more selfless, you know, instead of being worried about the gifts they're getting and stuff like that after just celebrating Christmas, they was willing to try something new. So I was really satisfied with that man and they enjoyed the Kwanzaa events that we went to.

Remie: 6:59

We went to see some African drumming. We did some community events where they got to meet other people and do some activities. We went to a Kwanzaa marketplace, you know, see some local black vendors and entertainers and stuff did some storytelling. There was a Kwanzaa storyteller that came from Baltimore. She was real good. Raylin and Ivan got up there and participated. It was a part of the stories. Ruby got up there and was like helping one of the ladies read some of the cards and stuff. So it was cool man. I really enjoyed it.

Warren: 7:41

I like how you I know you and I were talking when you came to visit me how commercialized a lot of the holidays have become and you wanted to try to instill something deeper than that. You were saying how you, what the key is to every year is they get so many gifts but they also have to give some gifts away and just kind of constantly put into that mindset of contributing back. You know, when you have more than most people, then you should give back and I liked that you were instilling that at your children.

Warren: 8:14

Yeah, of course it was a healthy lesson to learn.

Remie: 8:18

Yeah, because it's a very privileged position to be in, to have more than is needed, to have enough to. You know, give away, to have more toys than you could possibly play with. You know, yeah, and they actually never. I think maybe the first year we had spent doing that for a long time, maybe the first year we had some pushback, but every time after that it was like an exciting thing. It was like like we don't even let them bring their toys in the house because you know a lot of it comes from their grandparents, so we leave it in the car or we leave it in the garage or something like you can't bring it in the house. We give each of them a laundry basket, like, all right, go fill up the laundry basket and you know they come back. We don't even got to supervise it, you know they come back. You know some of the stuff be stuff that be really dear to them. They were like but I want to give this to somebody else so they can love it the way I did.

Remie: 9:15

I was like damn, that's what's up. Right, you know that's what's up, yeah.

Warren: 9:21

Yeah, and again it keeps coming back to that what kind of lessons are you instilling in your children to help them develop to be better people? I know that when I was growing up, my father and them instilled a lot of good things in me that I just didn't take advantage of. But I didn't realize what some of those things were or how privileged I was Even have someone teach these things to me, until I came to prison and I realized that a lot of the lessons, a lot of just the basic principles, just even taking care of myself, my hygiene, my, you know, look, taking other things into consideration I took for granted, because I'm thinking everyone knew a lot of guys in here didn't have those advantages. So when I wanted to change and I wanted to be more, something different in my life, I had that option.

Warren: 10:12

Well, a lot of guys may have wanted to change, but they just didn't know how because they didn't. They never, really no one really taught them how to be better people, thanks. And so a lot of people don't take that into consideration. Well, everybody had the same opportunity. They didn't. They really, really didn't. And not until you're in a place like this do you understand how different some of your upbringing was compared to what other people had to deal with under their own situations and circumstances.

Remie: 10:43

For sure I think a lot of the lessons I learned for life as an adult. They was instilled at me early in my life, but you know I was rebellious then. But I mean the seed was planted. So, like you said, it wasn't until I got to prison that I actually took all those lessons in. I dwelled on it. It was all in retrospect that I actually allowed those lessons to grow on me. Same thing I mean you know cleanliness, keeping up my space clean and organized. You know hard work. Even in school, when I was in high school, middle school, bad grades couldn't focus. You know, once I got to prison I started going to college and stuff straight A's. So I mean, but it was so much distraction, so much that I thought I needed to be a part of that before you know. And now it's like you know, even me and DJ we have like she looking me like why is you like this? And I'm like listen, man, I sound just like my father.

Remie: 11:56

I sound just like my father. Amazing how you start to sound like your parents, right, man, I swear everything I say on my mouth. I'm like damn, mike, you know cause I be younger up the stairs and my daughter, hey, we're taking so long in the shower, you gonna start to pay that water bill.

Remie: 12:13

You know. You know making the beds in the morning. You know, you know doing chores, like I'm slowly implementing more chores on my kids and they looking like damn man, you just gave us this chore, we just had to do it. I'm like yep and more coming. You know cause I do too much. I wasn't raised like that man. I was not raised to where you know, like Ruby 11. I wasn't at 11 years old man. I was taking care of the whole house down there. I had to take out trash and recycling. I was mowing the lawn, I was trimming the hedges, I was walking the dog, you know. So for my kids' only job to be to go to school and you know they don't even keep their own spaces clean that's unacceptable. So we getting there, but the same thing goes for in there. Man, a lot of guys never made it that far and most of the reason is because we was out of the house before we was even of age for real.

Warren: 13:22

Yeah Well, I don't. I don't like what me my read. I mean, cause I was in my house all the way until I came to prison. But one of the things that that was a disadvantage to me was I never respected my father as being a man. You know my well. My father went to work. My father came home. My father was faithful to his wife. My father wore the same jeans every single day while we got other clothes, and he wore these jeans so much. This is when people still would have wallets. He had a wallet print in his back pocket. When you take the wallet out, that print still in his back pocket.

Remie: 14:02

Yeah, it was still molded, the shape man.

Warren: 14:06

But the, the, the, the, the respectable thing that he was doing as a man I thought was weak and I didn't. I didn't really respect it as him being someone that I wanted to emulate or imitate and other things, like the guys who had girls, and you know the guys that was, you know, just out there fighting and drinking and just being cool and, you know, not even taking care of their kids. Those were the ones that I'm like yeah, that's what a man is, and so, man, my father clashed a lot because in his mind he was trying to raise a man. In my mind, you would stop for me to be a man Like I wanted to go out and get, I wanted to go out and drink, I wanted to go out, and you know, see, girls at the parties and all these other things like that.

Warren: 14:55

But you know, when you were young you think that, well, the reason why I didn't work for you because you were stupid, you didn't know what you were doing. But I know what I'm doing. You know I'm a lot smarter than you and the whole time he's looking like this boy don't know anything. But I didn't take that into account at the time. But I'm more appreciative of my father now than I've ever been in my life because I know now that everything that he was doing was for my benefit and I couldn't appreciate that at the moment when he was trying to do it which went out, I gave him so much heartache and grief. But I have much greater appreciation for it now that I know what a man is, as opposed to just assuming because I thought this was cool than other things was.

Remie: 15:40

Yeah, you know, I think one part of that is when it came to the streets and what we saw in the streets that we wanted to be. It was that old I mean you hear from street dudes all the time like man, you can't tell me shit, you can't tell me nothing, and that was what attracted us to it, that's what made us think like, yeah, that's the real man. Can't nobody tell him nothing. He in charge of his own destiny, he in everything he do. You know, can't no girl telling him what to do, can't, no, forget the law. Forget. Ain't he working no job? He out here getting it. But you know, do the lame my daddy a lame he going to work every day taking that shit from his boss. He got his wife at home in his ear.

Warren: 16:27

He got no money you know he what he know, but he think like it was six of us.

Remie: 16:33

Yeah, when you get older you start realizing the reason why my daddy ain't handling money Like boy. I'm telling you now, at 35, I understand, you know, and I just talked to DJ about it too I was like man, I make some damn good money, man, but I ain't never got nothing. He's got damn four kids, man.

Warren: 16:55

Yeah, it makes a big difference, especially when you're taking care of them. Like this guy in the ears, I mean I got 15 kids. I'm like, damn, you got 15 kids. And there's a couple of individuals that said that they actually had sons in the prison with them.

Remie: 17:09

Oh yeah.

Warren: 17:10

And when you talk to the sons they're like that, I don't fuck with you. They were like bragging about he got 15 kids and you got a couple of those kids talking about me. They don't even mess with him and it's one of them things to where just being able to say you have that many kids is not enough. To say you have that many kids and you're taking care of them, that's the sign of worth.

Warren: 17:34

And like I said, my father. He was a man about taking care of his kids. That was one that no one could ever say. That this man did not do is take care of his kids.

Remie: 17:45

It's that selfless aspect, you know, like that dude out there in the streets is getting it, can't nobody tell him nothing, but he ain't showing up for no little league games, no birthdays, no school clothes. He ain't making sure his kids eat before he eat. He ain't out there working a full-time job, got a hustle on the side, not saying that that's what you got to do to be a man, but that selfless aspect, like I definitely make sure that if I ain't having enough food, my kids gonna eat first. You know, absolutely.

Warren: 18:16

I definitely Anything.

Remie: 18:19

No, no, I was just doing.

Warren: 18:22

No, because the thing that made my father so unique was he was doing this back in the late 70s and 80s. So the majority of my friends grew up with mothers, single mothers. Well, my father was by himself all the way up to 85. You know, my father raised us by himself from the lowest, but from 80 to 85. You know, and he didn't eat in. All my friends were like you got a father at home. I'm like, yeah, you got a mother at home.

Warren: 18:53

We prepare notes and everything. But yeah, man, he was. My dad was a strong dude man. I can see that now as opposed to before, but yeah, he was about his business and I admire him for being a man that he is. It's strange when I talk to him and I tell him some of these things, sometimes he is saying things like well, you, my hero, I'm like, I'm your hero, I didn't do anything. But to him he like man, the things in which you've done, just at the age that you came to prison and everything, and that you survived and you thrived and you found ways to change and you went wrong a lot of ways, but you found ways that to make it right. He's been unproud of you for that and that's like man, my father proud of me. That's a lot, man. It really really is.

Remie: 19:43

I'm just crazy how that worked man.

Recording: 19:46

It is.

Remie: 19:48

Because I know a lot of times, and you know that about me, but I think it's something bigger than me. It's all of us man Rarely can we see the value in our accomplishments. We tend to belittle them and minimize them. I know the first time my mom told me she was proud of me, I was still in prison. I was like fuck you talking about her, right.

Warren: 20:13

She ain't that shit. She ain't proud of me.

Remie: 20:16

And I kept that same mentality. She was like no, you got in these programs, you got in the college, you got in. I'm like, man, that shit ain't nothing. And then I got home, I started doing stuff, and my dad, my cousin Ron, they was like, man, I'm real proud of you, you done, really done, something. I'm like, boy, I got this whole list of stuff. I ain't done nothing, man. They like nah, for real, you did. I'm like nah, I didn't done like two things out of a list of T and I ain't done nothing.

Remie: 20:50

But when I think about it, though, and I actually sit down because, for real, it took me to get all the way into this life of marriage and kids and everything and then I started seeing the similarities to my father, my father's, who I consider to be one of the most successful people I know, coming from where we come from, and I started thinking like damn, in five years, I got a house that's comparable to the house my dad had. Well, you know, he was about 40. And I'm 35, I did this in five years. You know, I got a job, you know, probably making what my dad make right now. I'm like damn, like. So it took me a long long time, even though I haven't accomplished. There's a lot of my goals I still haven't accomplished. There's a lot of goals that I don't move further away from than when I first got out. But I'm like but everything that I have done is worth being proud of. I should be proud of it and accept that when somebody else tells me that to him.

Warren: 21:57

Absolutely, and that's one of the things of that. Like you know, I always tell you I'm proud of you, but you also an example for me, because you had told me from the very start that you had some main goals in your mind, but the number one goal was to be a good father and a good husband. Yeah, you know, and the regardless of any of the other I don't want to say superficial, but the other things that are that people can see. The thing that's going to have the most impact is how your children benefit off of you being a good father and the example of a man that you're showing Debbie by being a good husband and so many people, I'll say, as far as men are concerned, they don't take that as something valuable. I tell people all the time the greatest thing that we can be for another person is an example, because what an example does? It shows a person that whatever you believe does exist. It shows you that you could actually have it and, lastly, it shows that you're worthy of having it because it's being demonstrated to you and given to you.

Warren: 23:08

And so think about how what Debbie might have thought a man was when she was growing up.

Warren: 23:13

Well, how she wanted her family, what she wanted a man to be, how she wanted her life to be, in which he became a wife.

Warren: 23:20

And although you may not hear all the boxes, you're hitting a lot of boxes where she can say I'm happy being with my husband and that's what I think now, before I get out, I wanna make millions of dollars, I wanna keep my car, I wanna do this. But once I met Christine, I already know what I want. I wanna be a damn good husband and I never want her to think that any of the pain that she experienced in the past and I'm capable of doing that to her, or that I would do that to her. I want her to have that security of this man loves me and therefore everything he does is gonna be for the benefit of my heart, and that's what I strive for. But I have an example of you You've been my example that those of us can get out the things that we think is the greatest thing. When you get out there and start living life and you start seeing it, something far greater exceeds the material things, and it's just being what you say you are consistently.

Remie: 24:15

That's an amazing thing. It took me like I made that goal to be a good father and a good husband in that order. When I was like 22 years old, I was in prison. You know, I had been in prison for like three years, maybe four years, and I was, like you know, somebody had asked me like man, what's my goals? I ain't no. So I started this list and those are the first two things I wrote down and I always kept that list all the way until I got out.

Remie: 24:53

And it still took me a while to develop the mindset, even though, like you know, I grew up in a gang and stuff. I always had a me mentality, like, yeah, I'm gonna show up for y'all niggas, I'm gonna ride, but it's all about me in the end, you know. But once I got to that stage in life where I was close to being released and stuff, I developed a we mentality. And that's new, that's weird, you know, because when I came home I really wasn't looking for, like you know, my ex. She was like you gonna get home and you just gonna wanna fuck everything. I was like, nah, like that ain't me, I'm cool, I'm serious. And she just couldn't believe it. She was like, yeah, right, whatever, just hit me up when you done. I'm like, nah, nah, I'm cool, right.

Remie: 25:41

So I didn't waste no time, man. I came home I was like, man, I wanna get, I wanna find somebody that I can be with forever and I can build with, because I want to focus on we. I wanna focus on us. I have a family. It's all about my family. It's not about me. It's not about how much money I can make. It's not about a house I can buy a car I can buy. It's like we. So you know, I got out, I bought a car. I started souping it up and changing it, painting it, all that stuff. I had the car for about a year. Man Sold it for a three-row SUV, like it's all about we. You know, it's all about we. It's all about we. And once I developed that we mentality, every choice I made was either about me and my kids, me and my wife. It's just, it's we. It's a family unit. There was not a choice that I made that benefited me without benefiting them.

Warren: 26:35

And that's, and it goes back again to just being a person of integrity and being consistent in what you say and you want.

Warren: 26:42

You know, the more, the more you got, the more that we became tighter in you, and that's that's where I'm at right now. And then and they say that that's that's the stages of development they say when we're younger and when we're kids, we have a dependent mentality, meaning everything needs to serve me, and so I have to draw off these different places to find out how it's gonna benefit me, because I have to lean on them. As we become older and we become more sure and develop within ourselves, we grow into an independent mentality. Like you say, it's all about me. Now, you know, and everything that I'm doing has to serve me first, and I don't care who else benefits from it. But as we mature, we grow into an interdependent relationship, which means that I am only greater because of the we, because whatever I can do by myself, I can do even better with you, and therefore I'm always adding to the collective, because everything I do, everything she does, everything they do, is all going into the same pot, and that you can be more productive that way, because it shows you you don't have to do everything.

Warren: 27:52

Now, one of the greatest things I've learned is companionship. A lot of people wanna be with someone, but it's not about being with someone, it's about having a companionship with them. I said this before about me and Christine's idea of what companionship is. The companionship means we never leave each other, ever. There's going to be some things that I'm far further advanced in than she is If there's something she's going to be further advanced than I am. But we only have three options Either I'm going to wait for you to catch up, I'm going to come back for you and wait for you to move, or I'm going to carry you in vice versa.

Warren: 28:32

But the option of leaving or trying to explore something greater because we think is better than what we have right now, because that's not an option for us. Because when you have a companion, you understand that it's us. There are no other options, and so we're going to make it work out together. We're going to build this to be the best it possibly can be. But that's grown man shit, that's adult stuff. This is stuff that takes care of development. This is what marriage is about. It ain't about having an option. It's about choosing who you want to choose as a mate and making it work, and it doesn't always feel good, it doesn't always like your partner at guys, but you understand that they're human, the same way you're human, and you're constantly growing and expanding your understanding of each other. That's where the work is. As long as you guys always see each other, you'll always find a reason to come back to where y'all started at, the foundation of what your relationship is, and that's we, yeah.

Remie: 29:31

For sure. I think another aspect of we that is real heavy in my life is that right out of the gate I knew that I wanted to serve as an example for other people. So everything I do not only benefits me, but I know that from being in prison 10 years, I know I was sold a lot of bullshit. And I was sold bullshit from society, from case managers in prison, from everything you hear about, every movie, everything. It's like. You've been in prison. You did this long stretch Basically it's over for you and I was like hell, no, I didn't.

Remie: 30:17

Came out here and got to it, opportunities start presenting themselves. I was like yo, I gotta give this information to the people coming out behind me, you know. And so not only did I want to give the information, but I gave the example because I mean, we was just talking about this earlier you got guys you don't been it with for years and years. You are fortunate enough to see them go home, you proud of it, you happy for them, but then you see them come back. You like what the fuck? You know, like my little dude, jay man, I was disappointed in him because we would walk the track and look out and watch the cars ride by on that state route through the barbed bar fence and we'd be like, damn boy, I can't wait to get out there. We plan out everything. Man, that's what I'm gonna do, that's the car I'm gonna get. I'm gonna go get this job down here, because I didn't look this up. So you see them come back. You're like what the fuck happened to the plan?

Remie: 31:13

So I wanted to get an example, because it's like I just seen this quote. Man, I said you got to give up your old life to get the new life, you know. So I say that to say they sold us this bullshit. It ain't that hard. Yeah, you got to tell people you got felony for maybe the first job or two, you know, but after a while, if you embody that new life that you want even before you got it, well, I fucking stopped caring about that felony. I mean, I told my boss I was outside of felony. He was like oh for real, man. Look man, I grew up kind of bad too, man. I was in this neighborhood and blah, blah, blah. He's like man. But you're doing good, I'm good, I'm proud of you. I was like damn, that's it. I was like all right.

Warren: 32:03

Yeah, but I remember I used to run this group called Brothers Keeper and we had a woman's week and what we did was we would get different women to come into the group discussion and the concept was a lot of us men think we know what women want, until you hear a woman speak and you realize you have one minute remaining.

Warren: 32:28

You don't know as much as you do. And one of the questions I was asked was would you be involved with a man who came out of prison? And almost every single one of them said yes, but it would depend on what he wants to do next with his life. She said, because if he can't get past that being in prison and try to move on to the next step, then no, I don't want to be with a man like that. And that was such an eye opener to a lot of men because they wasn't saying it was your felony or prison record that got me, it's your what's next that would determine it. So again, it falls back on you. And a lot of guys came out of that just with a different perception of what women want, because we think women don't care about that or what that's all. Women want to think about another. They're like no, I want to know what your next movie is. What are you going to do afterwards? What's next? And that was a big determining factor.

Remie: 33:25

Yeah. So your last comment, man, about woman being Open to having relationships with guys coming out of prison. It reminds me of business. So, like Society, you know, when you go to get a job, they always want to know about your past. They won't know about your resume, you know, yeah, you go get credit. They want to know about your past. When you go for a business Loan or something like that, all they want to know about your future, your potential.

Remie: 34:01

You can have absolutely zero income, which is basically what you have. Coming out of prison, you started zero and They'll like we'll give you a hundred thousand dollars if you can tell us what you think you can produce in the next. You know two years, that's. You know pretty much the. What you talking about is women like I understand you don't have anything and I understand you just went through something terrible, but what do you want to do next, which is a great feeling, you know. It's great when somebody look at you like that, instead of being like, ah, man, you didn't do it, what? Because when somebody look at you like that, all you think is man, see, that's why I used to be on that fuck you. And you can't tell me nothing.

Warren: 34:46

Anyway, because I knew you was gonna look at me like this right, and a lot of times we we get in our own way, we get in our own heads Because we have an idea what we want the world to look like in a world don't look, doesn't look back, back, look, but put that way, and it takes time to to kind of adjust your mind to the reality of which are up against. But once you do Mean, everything else start becoming a lot simpler, and that's why I told you one of the things that I'm still waiting for you to get down here I keep telling you to call garden hire right now.

Remie: 35:25

Oh yeah, I got dudes note right here for Justin Scott too.

Warren: 35:29

Yeah, people need to hear your message because I told you, a lot of guys come in here and the first thing they say, oh man, it's hard out there. Man, you know you, you guys don't. They give all these horror stories and and somebody want to hear them. Horror stories. Let me know how you made it, you know? Don't. Don't tell me that the most difficult thing that you had to accomplish. Tell me the good things that you accomplish and how can I accomplish them, because I know they can be accomplished.

Remie: 35:58

Yeah, I mean because most of the dudes in there was hustlers. Man, even if they're not in there for crimes, you know, of drugs or whatever, most of people in prison is hustlers, especially if they in prison and ain't got nothing. State babies, hustlers, right. Oh. So to be told that they can instead of being told they can't, that's an important message and that's what I was talking about. It's like that. We've been tired. We're like, yeah, I'm doing it for me and my family, but you know, I got an example to set and some good information to pass along.

Remie: 36:33

I'm not saying that I had the easiest opportunities, you know. I'm not saying I had the easiest road. I'm not saying I did, you know, accomplish every goal that I made, but I mean, look at where I'm at, bro, and before I went to prison, I ain't never had a job for more than four months. You know, I Remember I tried to get a Burger King job. That was my first job. No, I won my first. Yeah, that's my first time. I got Burger King job and I worked there just long enough to get my first paycheck. You know, they told me how to shave my face. I was like, yeah, you know that UK, tell me that mentality. So I had basically zero experience under authority, you know, and I had to figure out how to come home and get gainful employment not what society and what prison, told me I could get like, oh you know, you can go work at Walmart and you can get a higher fellow, I know, because they ain't gonna work for a hustler.

Warren: 37:46

Right, because I remember when I was, one of the reasons why I got on a college Ashton was passion didn't have a degree program down here at the time. They just have a certificate program. And so I'm going to college thinking like, you know, no one in my family has really gone to college except for my mother, and maybe this would be something good to do, because everyone Say, you know, you get a college, that's degree your whole life or change. And I remember going to the on-site director and she wanted me to take a county. And I'm like, why do I need to take a county when I don't plan on being a count? I want to take the writing and creative classes. And she told me, she said art, our responsibility isn't to educate you, our responsibility Is to help you get employed. That's the reason why we we trained to do service jobs.

Warren: 38:33

I'm like you telling me that I'm going to college to do a service job and she was like, yeah, I'm like okay, what else this isn't for me? And yeah, and a lot of times I didn't, I didn't understand a lot of things. I was one of them type of people if you tell me something, it doesn't really coincide with what I'm trying to do or what I'm trying to accomplish, then I'll get out of it easily is this is easy decision for me to make from that point on, because at the time, all I was doing here was hustling and I'm like well, shoot, I know how to. I know how to make money. It may not be legal, but I definitely know how to make money.

Remie: 39:13

I'm gonna get it. It was certain things I was willing to do in prison the hustle, you know. In the beginning I was willing to do a lot more. Yeah, I did the tattoos. You know the tattoo. Well, I started off with just art on envelopes and handkerchiefs, t-shirts, whatever I get my hands on. What the tattoos? You know dudes start paying you in drugs and all types of stuff when you do tattoos. So you know the transition to that.

Remie: 39:44

But once I started thinking out towards the future I had, I was like man, I'm closing shop. Yeah, cuz it was just like it ain't worth it, man, it ain't worth it to go backwards to to lose out on opportunities. You know and I mean that's that goes to what we were talking about earlier is like to see people come back to prison after getting that opportunity, after making the plan, and I think what I told you earlier was like it's really disappointing because now you know better, you know better options, you know better, you know avenues and stuff and you know how to cope better and you also know the consequences. So you know you really don't know excuse.

Warren: 40:36

But you know it takes relearning. I know when I stopped hustling it was hard to do it to time, oh yeah.

Warren: 40:47

It was, it really was. That's all I did from the time I woke up to the time I went to sleep, was trying to find ways to make it, because I know what it felt like To have a soup in a box and nothing else. I knew what it felt like to be home group Fraying for breakfast to come so I can put something on my stomach. You know, I knew. I knew what those days felt like and I didn't want to feel those things again and to stop. Hustling made those possibilities a reality again, and so At times I hustle because it was a habit, but more so it was also something like if I don't hustle, how am I gonna eat?

Remie: 41:29

Yeah, I mean. And on top of that, man, when I stopped hustling, I was bored out my mind for a while, because hustling became everything. It was my entertainment, it was my you know, food on my plate and everything but um. Like I said, though, I did it because I didn't know a better way. Once I learned a better way, I got consumed with that, and you know I'm a workaholic. But the benefits of being a workaholic is learning the new way and Getting so ingrained in it that I don't get tempted to do it the other way. I don't get be tempted. Black man, I gotta find a lick, I gotta, you know, I gotta somebody put me on what shit? Get hard, I just be like alright, well, if I Can't work more than one of my other options, you know there's plenty of legal hustles out there, and I can take all those skills that I Gave myself as a hustler and take them somewhere else.

Warren: 42:36

Yeah, but a lot of times I would just make excuses. I need to do this. You know it is, it just seemed easier.

Remie: 42:47

You know, we always said, by any means. You know I would get it by any means. But we didn't really pursue any means. We, because we pursued the most convenient means, because I ain't gonna lie thinking back I was always presented with positive opportunities. You know, I'm like I'm fucked up. Somebody come with a good, wholesome opportunity. I'm like, man, fuck that, I'm trying to get something right now. I'm trying to get something. What you want me to black? Nah, like I'm trying to hit a lick, I'm trying to get put on. I'm trying to do something so I can get paid right now. Right, get paid next week. Two weeks, what the hell? No?

Warren: 43:43

You know, it's interesting that you say that, because there was I mean, don't get me wrong, I've had some bad times when I had nothing and I might not always been in there have a best relationship. So my family at the moment but those times wasn't often. You know, my family for the most part has always found ways to make sure I had the things that I wanted. But I told myself those times are more frequent than most, so I had to be more desperate than most and I would think I was just making excuses for myself.

Remie: 44:21

I mean I also learned humility though, because those times where we was down wasn't really as bad as we made them out to see you in our minds, right. I mean, it wasn't until Probably my eighth year in prison where I had told my people like and I don't send me nobody, like I'm fucked up right now, but don't send me nothing, because I know you needed more than me at the. At the worst I gotta go to child. You know, like I got a roof over my head. I got, you know, food in my stomach three times a day, even if it ain't what I want to eat. Like I'm good, and so learning that mentality out here is Great. It's invaluable, because when you like damn, I ain't driving the car I want to drive, but I got some wheels. You know I ain't wearing the clothes I want to wear, but I got some clothes.

Remie: 45:16

Like I Literally brought the fact that I had I could count everything that I owned in prison Because of the 2.4. I brought that out here and was like man, I'm gonna go to Sam. I went to Sam's Club, my G and got some clothes. I bought five polo shirts and five pair cargo pants and like and I just remembered people clowning me like they get you shopping for clothes at Sam's Club. The one dude he told me I never forget he was like bro, they don't even give you bags. How are you getting this shit out of the store, you know? And I was like I wasn't even mad though, because I knew that in mom, in his mind, he thought he was doing better to me, but in my mind I was like right, you know, I was at the time I was still driving long distance in the truck and stuff. I'm like fuck you talking about?

Remie: 46:10

Yeah, you can't tell yeah yeah, yeah, I wanted bought some some $15 a pair shorts and some $10 your shirts. Like, yeah, I did, you know I'm rocking Chuck Taylor's this, you know, at the time it was like $65 a pair. Like, yeah, you know, yeah, you got on some $400 shoes. That's your dumb ass fault, you know, because I remember times when I was fucked up and Damn, $300 shoes ain't put no food in my stomach, bro.

Warren: 46:43

Yeah, you know the interesting part about that? My cousin, she did 18 years and she went home and she went home and she lost her ass. I mean, just girl, you had a job, she did it and what she was doing with her money was she would work, work, work, and then when she got tired of working, she went on vacation. She going to swim with dolphins, she's going hot air balloons, she's Repelling through the Redwood Forest. I mean she's doing all the not repelling, whatever that thing is. When you ride on a zipline, she's doing all the zipline, she's doing all this stuff.

Warren: 47:22

And there was a couple of family members that felt that she was kind of throwing it in their face. But when she told him, she said I Save my money While you're going out clubbing, while you're going out buying those expensive shoes, while you're going out buying those clothes. She said I'm buying my clothes the second hand store and I'm saving my money and I'm saving my money. So when I want to go somewhere and I want to do something, I can. And they couldn't really appreciate it, but she could appreciate where she was, like I know what it's like that that I have. I've been there not to have but Her. Her entire outlook on life was completely different based on her, her, her prison experience.

Remie: 48:05

Well, I mean, that's the hardest thing being in prison. You can't go nowhere. You live your life in front of the TV, man, you're seeing all that stuff. You know we watched each other, you know travel channel, that shit. And so, yeah, I mean, she right, blowing in all material stuff ain't nothing. If you're gonna blow on her anything blowing on that experience that you could never have, I mean, if you ain't trying to invest it or nothing like that, yeah, spin that on living a healthy, exciting life.

Remie: 48:39

Because I'm telling you, man, were you in a box? I used to tell my family, man, like I live in a half bath, and they thought I was bullshit. Like I live in a half bathroom. I got a sink, I got a toilet, I got a bed, I got a desk it fits in a half bathroom and they thought I was joking. I'm like it's the same amount of space. That's my whole life in that little space.

Remie: 49:02

Man, when I get out and I get the opportunity to go somewhere, I'm not gonna confine myself to the block. No more, that's what we did. Look, I'm from this block, I'm from that block. Hell, no, bro. When I got to go to Puerto Rico, that was the first time I've been out of the continental states, except for Hawaii. I was like yo, this is, you know, people speaking other languages and it looked just like what you see on TV man, rainforests, mountains, beaches, all that shit. I was like, wow bro, they put the bug in me. I can't be stuck in Ohio, I gotta get out, I gotta see some more. So now we sit here talking about like we gotta take our kids on the next out of the country trip because we gotta show them that I mean a lot of people get caught up in that. A lot of people get caught up in that isolated environment of this my state, this my city, this my block. But when you live in a true isolation, you get out. The block ain't big enough, the city ain't big enough, yeah.

Warren: 50:16

And that's kind of where I'm at right now. I want to travel. I don't wanna be just relegated to one place. I've been in this same institution, walking these same laps for 17 years, and why would I go home and do the same thing out there?

Remie: 50:37

Yeah, I'm good, get you a passport, man, soon as you get off supervision, get you a passport, start working on them stamps. But Yep, I got a stamp. Man, I got my first stamp. I was proud of it. I was proud of it. I started looking for places that got cool stamps because I just want to collect cool stamps. You know beliefs, they stamp was all basic. I'm like man, I gotta find somewhere with some cool stamps to put on there. We're gonna get to Egypt. I'm gonna go to Greece. You know, we're gonna get out there and see some stuff.

Warren: 51:16

I just watched Murder on the Nile and they were just showing different places in Egypt. I'm like, oh, I definitely gotta go to Egypt now.

Remie: 51:25

Yeah, I mean I want to go to Africa like deep Africa man, Like I don't want to go to no cliche. Like Egypt is a part of Africa man, that's cool, but I want to go. I don't want to go to South Africa, you know. I want to go to like Nigeria, you know, somewhere, like with some deep African roots man. But like they portray Africa like it's all straw huts and stick chuckas man, right, like I'm trying to deal with this Stick chuckas yeah, man, that's how it is on TV man, but it'd be like big ass metropolises over there. You know It'd be a second. I want to see that. I want to be a part of that man. Oh, my goodness, that is hilarious. They hating on the motherland dog.

Remie: 52:19

I got to go see it, I know yeah.

Remie: 52:24

I know I mean it ain't just Africa. I know like no Africa trip, but I definitely want to go see that man, different parts of it too, not just one part. Like our trip for Egypt, we was going to see like Alexandria and the Valley of the Kings and stuff. Like we was about to see like three different cities in Egypt. So definitely got to.

Remie: 52:50

You know, you can't just that's how we did in Puerto Rico too, and when we was in Belize, like we went to Puerto Rico, we stayed in San Juan and then we went to the opposite side of Ireland. What is that city? We went to San Juan and I don't even remember I can't remember right now, but it was dope. It was a whole different environment because San Juan is all touristy, it's a big city and once we hit the other city it was like small town vibes. You know everything, authentic food, you know everything. I got to experience that because I'm telling you everywhere I ain't like the US how they deal with people. You know, just hold the way of life. I got to experience that.

Warren: 53:41

Yeah, I can't, I can't wait to have that experience as well, and Christine was one of the ones that kind of helped me understand that. You know, when you grow up here, you think that this is all there is, until you go someplace else and realize, wow, that the world is bigger than just the United States. You know, you don't, I mean, you know it but you don't really think about it, because all our experiences of other places is on TV and very few of us go outside the country to experience something greater than this. Maybe not greater, just different different.

Remie: 54:16

I want to get in the habit of experiencing different cultures. You know like I went to experience some and I was like damn, it was eye opening, like this is cool. But I want to be in the habit of always experiencing something new so that the US way of life living in Ohio ain't the normal no more. Yeah, I'm going to be used to having that new experience. That'd be dope.

Warren: 54:45

And that's like you say the crazy party is so many of us never leave our block. This guy that I know from Cleveland is that they never left us their city blocks.

Remie: 54:54

And we got to start ragging on Cleveland. I didn't mention Cleveland to say I said we got to stop ragging on Cleveland because I'd mentioned the same thing about Cleveland. I know a lot of dudes that say never left a block. You know, even even moving away from like, northeast Ohio, moving out of central Ohio, was like big for me because I mean, you know, I'm a transplant, I had to learn how to love the city I live in and claim their sports team and you know I was like damn, this is different but it's a whole lot bigger city for one. So everywhere I went was a new restaurant, a new venue, new. You know, it was just every time for like the first lockdown to legacy podcast is proud to be a part of the bus route community.

Recording: 55:52

I loved it because I grew up in a room. I knew every back alley.

Remie: 55:58

I knew that the show could be through everywhere. You can reach us with feedback, questions, comments or share the love by emailing stories at lockdown, the number two legacycom Stories at lockdown.

DJ: 56:10

And now that was one of the things like you can reach out there too for a free sticker, and you can find us on.

Remie: 56:15

Instagram and.

DJ: 56:16

Twitter with the handle at the lockdown to the same and out there, the lockdown to the podcast is completely different.

Warren: 56:29

Yeah, like say it was just like the West Coast mentality is completely different to the Midwest mentality, completely different. In the South mentality it's just different. And then you should experience all of that. That's All right, brother, that's my time, as always. Enjoy talking to you. Love you, man. I hope you feel better and yeah.

Remie: 56:49

I'll talk to you soon. Well, for sure, man Love you. Man, be safe in there, absolutely. Bye, bye.

Recording: 57:01

Thank you for using GTO.