Warren's Wisdom: Holidays, Healing, and Hope

Imagine spending your holiday season behind bars, stripped of the familiar comforts and amid the pressures of drug use. Our dear friend and inside correspondent, Warren, grants us an intimate perspective into this reality in the American prison system. Warren reveals the inventive ways inmates recreate traditions during the holidays, and the challenges of coping with illness without proper medication. 

Join us as we uncover the extraordinary transformations that occur within prison confines. Two first hand views, recount their experiences, reflecting on the bonds formed during these difficult times. They shed light on the challenges post-incarceration, exploring the struggles to maintain relationships and the importance of a robust support system. They also share their determination to assist others navigating life after prison, offering wisdom based on their experiences.

But beyond the stark realities, we usher you into a world of profound human emotions - forgiveness, self-acceptance, and the remorse for past missteps. We reveal our struggles to let go of our guilt, emphasizing the importance of taking responsibility for our actions. In a moving segment, we ponder on the impact our past actions have had on women, instigating a deeper understanding of the harm inflicted. This is more than just a conversation; it's a journey - a journey of self-discovery, growth, remorse, and ultimately, redemption. Tune in and journey with us.

Transcript

Remie: 0:19

Welcome to Lockdown the Legacy stories from the inside out. I'm your host, remy Jones.

DJ: 0:25

And I'm co-host Debbie Jones. We are a husband and wife team here to bring you the real life stories, experiences and questions around the American criminal justice system. We do advise discretion with this podcast. I think we should put that out there first and foremost. Yes, we are going to talk about experiences that happen inside the prison system, outside of prison systems. We will use language that might be offensive, but we intend to keep it real. And if that's not for you, we totally understand, but please do what's best for your listening ears.

Remie: 0:56

Oh, we're about to keep it real, son. Our goal of this podcast is to share the inside realities of the American prison and criminal justice system, from precharges all the way to post release, from the voices of those who've experienced it firsthand, including me.

DJ: 1:12

That's right, we're going to get into it.

Remie: 1:29

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Lockdown the Legacy. Of course I'm your host, remy Jones, and this episode is one of my conversations with Lauren, who of course is our inside correspondent, so also great friend of mine, longtime friend and very talented author. So I mean guys packed full of wisdom. So of course we call these Warren's wisdom. And here we are with an episode about the holidays.

Remie: 1:59

It's that time of year where oftentimes we forget about those on the other side of the fence. If you had a chance to listen to our prior episode last year with Joe, where we talked about some of the ways that guys spend time and celebrate holidays in there, mainly with cooking, then you know just how big of a deal it is. So here we are, me and Warren shedding some more light on that with someone else's perspective. So I hope you guys enjoy. Feel free, as always, to let me know what you guys think. I love that feedback. And if you got anything for Warren as well, make sure that you send it to me, just on Facebook or email or IG. You know, hit us up on the socials, all right, love you guys. Thanks for listening, peace.

Warren: 2:58

This is a prepaid debit call from Warren, an inmate at the Graffin Correctional Institution.

DJ: 3:05

This call is from a DRC correctional facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Thank you for using GTO.

Remie: 3:12

What's up, bro? What's going on, bro? How are you?

Warren: 3:16

Better now. I was sick this last week. I'm down. I was laying in bed all day and trying to get better.

Remie: 3:23

Oh man, I'm glad to hear you bouncing back. Man, I ain't talked to you in about what two weeks?

Warren: 3:29

Yeah, it's been a while. It is crazy because you know they didn't take all the medication out of here. So I'm taking sinus peels and drinking water warm water, honey because they don't allow us to have tea in here anymore, because people smoke that.

Remie: 3:44

What Are you serious, man?

Warren: 3:47

Yeah, we don't have tea here anymore because people smoke it. So it's like back to the basics drinking water and that's it.

Remie: 3:56

They took all the medication out.

Warren: 3:58

All the medication. I mean we still have cough syrup, but that don't really do anything. We have the candy cough drops, but that's as far as we get for any kind of cold medication.

Remie: 4:10

Yeah, I know they give you like the bare minimum as far as like potent ingredients go and the cough syrup and cough drops and stuff Like basically it ain't no medication in it.

Warren: 4:24

They used to let us get the Alka-fels or plus, and those things were great, but they took them out as well. So we went and we're not allowed to have them for some reason. But you know, guys just find a way to get high off anything. They was getting high off a hand sanitizer.

Remie: 4:38

Oh, my God.

Warren: 4:39

And it was drinking that, putting a little Kool-Aid, mix a little Kool-Aid to take the little harsh taste off, and drinking it and getting messed up off of it.

Remie: 4:48

That's crazy, that's amazing. I watched the documentary. One time I was actually in prison when I watched this documentary and it was about, like matter of fact, it wasn't even documentary, it was that show intervention and it was a lady that was like a real bad drunk and she would do that like drink, hand sanitizer and mouthwash and rubbing alcohol, just anything, and like they basically had to like lock her in the room for a week until she like kind of cooled off before they really started going about like detox and stuff. But like I mean, you see that stuff on TV. You were like ain't nobody life that fucked up. So were they drinking hand sanitizer and mouthwash but, you know, grabbing alcohol? But I mean, damn, I ain't never hit that close for me, you know.

Warren: 5:37

Yeah, A lot of times you don't believe it until you see it. And it's like until you see the effects it have on them and like, yeah, I can see why you're doing it. I wouldn't do it, but I can understand why you're doing it. It's a cheap high and they keep refilling it.

Remie: 5:55

You know that actually kind of correlate to what I was wanting to talk about today, because I wanted to talk about, like you know, it's the holiday season is again and you know a lot of people fall into like depression and like they lose that what's the word I'm trying to look for man, like they kind of lose hope, like they get frustrated, they kind of fall into that depression and stuff. So you know, drug use is one of the side effects of that right.

Warren: 6:30

Mm-hmm, there's one of them, yeah so but you have to think when we in here, when the holiday season come, you try to make it as close to what you believe you will be doing out there in here. So one of the things that I used to do I mean I don't do it anymore, but anytime holiday season come around I go and get me a quart of wine. Yeah, I did say that. They know most of the officers know around this time wine is going to be in high demand, because if we were going to give you that kind of this is what I would be doing out there.

Warren: 7:05

I'd be drinking or smoking and just enjoying the festivities of our family. Another thing that we do in here is a bunch of us eat a meal together, everyone at Chipi and put something in, and then we'll all eat a meal to kind of get that family feeling of sharing and eating and communing together.

Warren: 7:27

So you try to replicate it as close as possible with the things, that which you have. I don't do a lot of that stuff anymore because it's just another day to me now, but I remember it initially at the beginning of my day. You're getting a stick and a quart of wine. I was great for a while.

Remie: 7:48

Yeah, man, I mean, and it's levels to it, man. So when you say like wine, all wine, and created it equal, you know hooch Right, because at the low end you got like the stuff they make out of, like bread and baked potatoes and shit and ketchup it's like ketchup. Wine is one of the worst hooch you can get. Right, it's potent.

Warren: 8:10

It depends on who makes it. It's potent. It all depends on who makes it.

Remie: 8:14

It tastes horrible but at the same time you can make clear out of almost any of it. So you get changed from some clear. That's like some top tier stuff you going in the pocket for that.

Warren: 8:25

Yeah.

Warren: 8:27

But, it was a couple of guys down here. You could always tell how good the wine is by what it costs and how much you're going to get. So the guy that I used to buy from he would give me a court for $15. That is a reasonable price for like high end. But I have a person who only tried to like five or $10 for a court. You know, you probably drink your water, you probably go get a headache and you probably want to kick his ass or what he sold you. But yeah, you paying like 10, I mean 15, $20 for a court, that's about reasonable. That's good wine. That is good wine. You know it's like you don't need all of that.

Remie: 9:06

It's some real like artisans in there, for real. I mean, to this day I'm still amazed at, like the talent that people got in there, you know. But something I mean of course it's illegal, it's not sanctioned, it's against the rules, but it's dudes in there that know how to make wine like they can legit come out here and work at a brewery or start up their own micro brewery or something, cause that's the thing now, like you know, I stay in Columbus now and all throughout the city is micro breweries making their own beer. You putting it in little local bars and stuff you know. Making their own meat. You know I like meat. I fuck with a brother's drink. They local to Columbus, Amazing stuff, man. So like when I think about it in there, like you get some base level or some bullshit hooch, it got floaties in it, you know it's like it's cloudy.

Remie: 10:02

It got the bite, you know. Sometimes it just smells like rancid. Whatever you know you drink. I didn't drink, oh my God, I didn't drink some of that ketchup hooch and the ketchup felt like blood clots in it. It was just all you know. But hey, you know you get messed up by the meat, Just to believe.

Warren: 10:23

I've done almost everything you can do in prison and so I've definitely attempted to be a wine maker and it's not as simple as just sitting some fruits and sugar, some bread and burping. It's not as simple as that Because, again, there's individuals who know how to work or what you work with. Like, if you just have access to orange juice and fruit cocktail and sugar, you're good, but what if you don't have access to that stuff? You know there was guys that was making it with grapes because they started limiting our sugar, so they was making it with jelly and they was making it with. I mean, they were just very, very creative and inventive on how they were making this wine and we never lost this quality. It was still that high potent drink, half a vitre, dizzy type of drink, but everyone can do it. I've tried it. I was not good at it.

Remie: 11:22

I mean I ain't gonna go into detail but the hiding places I'm, like I done seen some crazy hiding places.

Remie: 11:31

man Like damn I walked by that 10 times today, and I ain't even know. You know they done survived the SRT shakedowns and everything like. Soon as doors pop, they do go into, they stash, like you know everything cool. I'm gonna burp it a little bit and leave it alone Like damn. And you know, and one of my things I always try to tell people is like you mind your business, because you know you see that happen. You see, dude, go over to the stash. You're like damn, I was there the whole time. Yeah, and you just leave it alone like I ain't know my business. I'm gonna hit him up. I know to hit him up when it's done, though, you know.

Warren: 12:08

Yeah, you know the crazy part. I remember one time in my ventures and making wine. Remember those milk bladders we used to get.

Remie: 12:17

Oh yeah, for sure. That was the only reason why I worked in this little chow hall for a minute.

Warren: 12:21

So I had one of these milk bladders and I'm making wine, but I don't tell my cellmates that I'm making this wine. So I got the milk bladder. It's down at the bottom of my cabinet. I pulled my drawer out. I got the little knob where you pour the milk out. I got a bag up there so it can. The gas can go up into the bag and I could burp it every now and then, but again, I don't tell him this.

Warren: 12:43

So somehow or another, as this bladder is getting bigger and bigger, it pinched the nozzle that was releasing the gas. So now all that gas is building up in this bladder. I'm out on a wreck yard and I'm kicking it. I was about to go back, so you know what? I think I'm gonna spend another hour out here Now the time I'm at Ross, and once they close that gate you can't get back out into the gate open back up. I don't know what the time that all this gas is building up in this bladder and it's so big it takes the whole cabinet and start lifting the cabinet up while my monkey is in there.

Remie: 13:19

Oh man, and so he don't know what the hell's going on.

Warren: 13:23

But he sees his whole cabinet starting to tilt and so when he opens the bottom drawer he sees his milk bladders ready to bust. So now he gotta try to figure out how to get it out from under the cabinet without tearing it. And he pulled and trying to get it tore and wine was everywhere. Now the air the broom is smelling like wine CO's doing their round. He's trying to clean it up.

Warren: 13:50

Oh man, when I got back he was ready to kick my ass. He was like man, don't you ever bring something to you? At least tell me what's going on. But I'm sitting there like only thing. I'm thinking like what happened to the wine? I'm like, was there anymore wine left? And he was like man, fuck, that wine didn't you use. But I was like man, I think that was my bad man. I ain't even think about it. But yeah, you gotta be careful about where you put it at and you gotta think about what could possibly happen. And it's probably a good idea to let your your bongy know if you make it wine and to sell with him in there.

Remie: 14:20

Yeah, I used to like I told you I worked in a childhood just for the benefits of what I get, so I would bring a little bleach back, you know, sneak some bleach back the bladders, stuff like that. And of course you know, juice, whatever I can get for sugar, wise Right. But you know that was the days, man. But I'm talking like you know, around this time is where you know if, if you got people on the inside or even like taking care of each other, like you gotta be checking up on folks, cause one bad phone call could change the whole season for real, you know. And that phone call might even be bad. It might just be like man, nobody asked her, and you get to thinking about how everybody out there kicking and stuff. It's like you gotta. That's the reason why we come together. That's the reason why we cook together. You know we go to rec, watch a movie, whatever's going on, you know.

Warren: 15:15

And that's one of the things I can't say about a lot of us in here this although we have our own little clique, it's almost a common understanding that we're supposed to be there for each other around this year. One of the things I've noticed around this time of the year is you see more guys embrace, you know, instead of just gaps in pound oh yeah, merry Christmas, you know, giving each other hugs how you doing, how your mom doing. You don't make sure everybody's talking about it. You know, people are more jovial as far as letting them understand that someone's here for you. You're gonna be all right, we're gonna get through this together. It's never spoken, but there is.

Warren: 15:56

And even like they decorate and like they're decorating like crazy and here's lights everywhere in this block, but just to hold the whole atmosphere is less hostile than it normally may be around this time of the year Because a lot of guys are on high alert. There's a lot of tension here. There's just that dealing with it not being out, not being free, not being with your family's wonder what you could do. And then we got to deal with the trauma of all these damn Christmas movies. That is just traumatic. I'm so sick of these Christmas movies, but Christmas movies like the last year, you know, election year they flash with all these political campaigns. That's the way Christmas movies are. Around this time of year they show up every day, every hour.

Remie: 16:45

Yeah that was pretty hard for me, man. That was pretty hard for me because I don't really do Christmas. You know I never really did. So you know I always have my routine. Like I go work out, I come back about seven o'clock and watch Jeopardy. I get up, take my shower, I come back about nine o'clock. My show's starting, you know. But around this time of year, like all your shows on pause, everything on hiatus, all they showing is old ass Christmas movies. You know Rudolph and the Snowman. I'm like bro, fuck this shit, like what where my show coming and they don't come back on until the new year, like it's over with.

Warren: 17:25

Yeah it's like it's like. It's like election season. All you see is Christmas shows all month long, and it's starting after Black Friday. After Black Friday, it's showing Christmas shows at the end of the year, and there's only so many that they can show, so they keep showing the same ones over and over again.

Remie: 17:44

Man, yeah, I'll be mad. Like it's that's when I do the most reading. Yeah, I'd be all on my shows. Have my shows for my routine this time of year, or watch me put down like three, four books a week.

Warren: 18:01

So let me ask you this how different is it, now that you've been home, your mentality, the way you feel, or even your attitude about this time of year, as opposed to when you was in here? I mean, we know, in here we try to make the best, do that we can, but now that you're out there, after coming from here, how much different is it for you now?

Remie: 18:23

So I would say my experience in there actually changed how I view this type of I mean this this time of year and hold like for the rest of my life, because I know, like this people out there going through shit. The world ain't all about my, my life and my problems, you know, and um right, I would say like even my last two years in there, like I used to be very kind of selfish because in prison you got very limited. You know supplies and resources, but like my last two years, I would make a big-ass break and give a bowl. Like I would always put one of those small Tupperware bowls. I Will always put one aside and give it to.

Remie: 19:03

Like just somebody random that I know ain't got shit. You know a state baby, right, yo, here you go, bro, and they be looking at me like Well, with the plug, type of Like what's this for? Like you know they suspicious and I'm like, nah, bro, just like that's you good it was. It was somebody I wasn't cool with, somebody I really never talked to, but I knew they had nothing. And when I first got home, like my first year home, I I cooked. I cooked for Thanksgiving and when we had leftovers I went to Sam's Club and bought all those styrofoam boxes and boxed all that shit up and just went driving around and any homeless person I seen at an off-ramp I was like yo, here you go, bro. Like here here go coke, like wow. And like my ex, she was like like you, serious, I'm dead-ass serious, we about to throw this away, we about to keep it in the refrigerator for two weeks till it go bad. Like I Just passed 15 homeless people on the way over here, like you know right, that's beautiful.

Warren: 20:00

My I really really is I.

Remie: 20:03

Mean like I'm too far above of me on, but I just feel like it's little stuff, like that, cuz I Mean I don't really give money to homeless people, that's not my thing, but I know that it's stuff I could do to help. Like if I ride by and I just went shopping I got a case of water in the back, like here you go, bro, stay hydrated. You know, like. So it's that type of mentality I come on extra strong this time of year, like I know that everything ain't about like oh, somebody doing drugs or everybody ain't. You know, some people just unfortunate, and the same thing go for people that appear to be Doing good, like everybody got these drugs.

Remie: 20:43

So you know, hey, hey, you need, you want to come over, yet we ain't doing nothing this year. But I go hang out with somebody. I, you know, toss somebody a couple dollars, like on the inside, you know. You know I still keep the contact with a few people and I try my best to be there for you all, man, because I know, I know what it's like. You know, like this week coming up I'm coming to see you, but the same day I'm also going to see my best friend, chat, who's in the camp, you know so he is in the camp.

Remie: 21:16

Yeah, you know camp, and then I'm gonna try the following week to go see why is out in youngstown, you know. Yeah, so it's like I can't do much, but you know I could be there for you because I Don't know what the situation is for everybody, but I'm gonna try to make it a little bit better. However it is, you know.

Warren: 21:39

But what do you think about you that made that made you so different than Other people? Because there's people who've done more time than you is, people who have Probably grew up with a lot of people and known them longer than you. But since you've been home, you have continued to reach back in. You've continued to be present in our lives and Shared your own life with us. I told you the one time I said you wanted a few people that I know that if you don't hear from me, you'll reach out to me. Where most people that we deal with, we have to reach out to them. I'm not even talking about like a person, anybody. We're involved when I'm talking about this family or friends, if they're many, like what. You got my number. You know I'm at. You can always get in contact with me, but that's saying Thing is not reciprocated when it's like well, when you think about me, why don't you reach out to me?

Warren: 22:35

And recently I just told my father. I said that I don't deal with life, life support relationships anymore and he was like what is that? I said you think about a personal life support. The only thing that's keeping them alive is that machine. Well, I have become that machine. The only reason why the relationship is still functioning is because I'm putting forth the effort. But if I stop putting forth the effort, I would never hear from you again. But you're not like that. It's like you reach out to me. If I could say if you don't hear from me, hey bro, I ain't heard from you in a while. It's just a little email that you know. I'm all right, love you. I talked to you soon, and most people don't get that in here especially.

Warren: 23:12

And so what do you think has made you different as far as your thinking, to behave in that manner or to see things in that manner? Well, everyone has done the same. Well, a lot of people have done the same thing you did, which is extended amount of time, made bonds or relationships. But when you got out, you didn't try to forget. They got out, they did everything in their power to forget and even though they may have been there initially, eventually it faded. What do you think made you so different?

Remie: 23:46

I think the same thing goes for everything else in my life as far as success goes, and that is it all started before I got out. I made preparations before I got out to have the success that I got now. So one thing I never did with anybody that I was ever cool with in prison was I never sold no dream, because I know what it's like. I haven't been here 10 years. You know how many dreams I done got sold.

Remie: 24:14

So it was people that went home before me that was like hey, yo, here go my information. And I was like, nah, bro, I'm cool. And they was like, damn why. They took it like offensive and I was like, man, there ain't no offense meant, but I was like one. I can realistically recognize who I'm dealing with. I know you got a lot to go home to. You got a lot to do. Whether it's the good thing or a bad thing like you got a lot coming. The last thing you need to do is be thinking about reaching back in here to me and especially if you not gonna do it, you know why would I set myself up for that.

Remie: 24:54

So I would decline that. But it was a few people really. It started off as just like two people. It was you and it was wise and I immediately reached out to you. It actually took me about a year to reach out to wise and I apologized and everything, but at the same time I never gave any type of a dream, like I never sold no expectations of what presence I would give, except for, like I'm gonna be here. I can't always send money, I can't do this and that, but I try and so that's all I ever expected.

Remie: 25:34

Like I learned that the last half of my bit was it's not about what you do for me, it's about what you say you gonna do for me. If you say you gonna do something, if you say you gonna be here, if you say you gonna be loyal, whatever, like that's what I expect. So when it don't happen, that's when I'm mad and I understood like my family got a life. My family out here is struggling most of the time. So if they couldn't send no money, then I'm like that's cool. Like you know, put $11 on JPEG is 60 stamps. Just write me, you know.

Remie: 26:12

You ain't gotta come see me, you ain't gotta come. You know you ain't gotta answer the phone. I knew like the phone calls, especially before they got cheaper, when they was like $5 for a local call, it was like $15, $17 or something for out of state which was a lot of my family. I don't expect you to be a man called right back, I understood you know. So when I came home I was like man. First off I wanna try to be here for you all Because I know what it's like, especially when it ebbs and flows. You got your ups and downs going on in there, but two, I've like our relationship. You know it's the same type of relationship. I try to keep it everybody else.

Remie: 26:56

It's like I learned blindly when I came home how to find success. I don't want y'all to learn blindly, especially those of you that did more time than me. I did 10 years. That's a hell of a chunk of life to be missing. If I would have had somebody which I did I got you know three mentors that really helped me get to it fast. But if I had like more support, somebody that was in my position that came home and could give me the map, you know Like why wouldn't I do that Especially if I claim that. You know, I got love for y'all. Like y'all family to me, you know.

Remie: 27:37

So I'm always here, you know. I know what it's like. I know what it's like to be stuck in your head because you I mean, yeah, you got dudes in there that you rock with, but certain parts of them you can't expose because it's dangerous in there, you know Right. So I'm always like yo, what's up? How you doing? You know I could see the news. I know what's going on out here. I know what's going on with COVID in there.

Remie: 27:58

So when COVID hit, I'm like yo, I ain't heard from you what's going on. Like you know, yeah, I'm serious, I'm genuinely worried and you know, you know all too well that I can get stuck on overdrive when it comes to work, when it comes to goals and success and stuff. But talking to y'all in there and reaching back in and helping out whatever I can, coming to see y'all, it actually keeps me grounded, you know. It actually makes me slow down and see, like everything I've done is enough. Everything I can do after that is extra, and if I mix out on a little extra, that's cool, you know. So that's mainly what it?

Remie: 28:42

is.

Warren: 28:43

I think one of the things that people fail to realize and I know you said you were a big proponent of mentorship One of the things that I think people fail to realize is how important an example is, an example to me. It not only shows you that something is real, that it truly exists, but it also shows you that you're worth this thing that is being an example to you, and that this is something that you can be as well. And I say that because you have been an example of what a friend and a brother looks like, not just talking it, not just being it sometimes, but an example of what it looks like. And for a person like myself who's been locked up 30 years and has seen multiple people go home, have heard the multiple promises and I'm like you when a person tell me hey, man, when I get out, say no, just go out there and live your life to the best you possibly can. That's all I'll require from you. But for you to actually get out there and do that and, in addition to doing that, still be the man you were in here, that's an example, as I always say that I admire you or you inspire me, because you've given me an example of not only that, this is something that truly exists, a friend. This is something that you truly work, which is my loyalty, my love, my caring, my commitment but this is also something that you can do.

Warren: 30:21

That is so powerful for an individual to have in their life from another person and if so many people out there, that will rather give you lip service than to be an example for you to show you those three things. And you're someone that I can actually say I know someone that is like this you see somebody on the team that you did, oh, I know them, I know them. You're they my cousin. It's like when you say, oh, I know what a friend looks like. I got one of them. Oh, I know what a brother look like. I know I can make these statements because you have been here and you've been there. But yeah, thank you for that I appreciate it.

Remie: 31:03

I do appreciate it, man. That's a huge compliment to me, actually. But that's what I built. Everything I got around the podcast, the business, like wanting to help people. But even off the books, off of the business side, like my relationships with y'all is like you know it. Take me back I don't know if you remember this when my sister was going through some stuff and I had told her I was like man, you got a lot of people rocking with you, that's giving you blessings free of charge. They don't expect you to pay them back at all. And I had told her, like, when people do that for you, when people bless you like that, and they tell you you ain't got to pay them back regardless, you owe it to them to rise up and be better than the situation you was in before. So that's what I try to do is like not only do I try to invest in y'all because I recognize the situation and how detrimental it is, how it could be, but also it's like in the process, it's like yo.

Warren: 32:06

You have one minute remaining.

Remie: 32:10

In the process. It's like yo, I'm an example of how far you can go, Regardless of what limitations they press on you. Like, just know, you can rise up above that, follow in my footsteps and even go further. Because, like I said, if I had somebody to give me the head start, who knows where I'd be right now. Like I ain't gonna do this, gonna hate and try to keep you down. Like damn he doing better than me. I'm like whoa, like get out here and get to it, like you know. So I mean.

Warren: 32:40

I appreciate our relationship so it's also and that also makes you wanna be better. Like seeing your example of how like well should I? I gotta step my friendship game up. I gotta get better, because I'm not used to this. You know, sometimes you get so used to people disappointing you, you just expect it, and then when they don't disappoint you, you know, okay, well, they're gonna disappoint me on this next one. They don't disappoint you, Like, oh okay. Well, now this is something I'm not used to. Now I have to live up to it. I have to let go of some of that other shit that I've been doing, because this is not it and that letting go is hope. Thank you for using GTL.

Remie: 33:16

Okay, so that was the end of the first phone call, and you know, of course, these phone calls only 30 minutes, so we're gonna wait for them to call back real quick, and then we're just gonna pick up right where we left off. All right, hold tight. Yes, sir.

Warren: 33:32

Yeah. So what I was saying is it's hard to let those things go because you start believing in there. Who you are, you know. You start thinking that they're my identity. A good example of that is when I got involved with Christine.

Warren: 33:46

I had a saying that I used to always tell her I don't have emotions, I'm numb to that. Emotions mean nothing to me, I'm a logical person, I'm an intellectual. She kept telling me Warren, you do have emotions. I'm like no, you have emotions, you're emotional. I don't have emotions. And when she started showing me signs of it, she was like you're just not mature in learning how to use, express and understand what you feel, because as soon as you feel that, you try to run from it or you try to shut them down. And it took time for me to understand. It took time for me to learn the importance and value of having an emotion, but it wasn't that it was hard. I didn't want to let it go. I liked the fact that I can go through something and do it without dealing with the emotional backlash of it.

Warren: 34:35

But now I can't imagine living without emotions and there are so many things in our lives that have hurt us, especially in this prison environment that you can't show certain things, you can't show signs of weakness, you can't show that you care, you can't be compassionate, you can't have empathy, or so we've been taught to believe. And when someone comes and says no, bro, there's something different. You can do these things and still be just as strong as you are. We resist those things because it makes us vulnerable and put us in a place that we can get hurt. And so when a person starts talking about I'm a friend and they're showing you a friend, sometimes letting go of the idea that this person has already proved has proven to be trustworthy, meaning they are worthy of my trust, which means I can put whatever I want in their hands and know that they have the character to honor, respect and appreciate it to the same level that I would.

Warren: 35:30

But doing that is terrifying. And so by you constantly keep being an example. You keep pushing me, and I'm sure of Blythe and other individuals, that there's some things that we've had in our past, from our hurts and being disappointed, and we got let go in order to honor the gift of friendship that you have given us, because that's what you were worth. The same way, you were an example to us. We have to be an example of what separation looked like.

Warren: 36:00

So you would know that everything that you're doing is being appreciated and honored the same way which are giving us with our lives or what you're showing us with our lives.

Remie: 36:11

It's a reason why I mean it's more than just the benign right when I send pictures and stuff vacations, you know, kids events, christmas time, decorations and all that I don't just sit in that stuff because we friends, you know. First off, you know that's a lot of trust to share my family with you, you know. But I do it because it's showing you a side of me that you never got to see when I was in there, you know, and not just for deepening our relationship, but because you know we talked about this before one of the most important things to learn when you get out here is the social aspect of it. It's not about the business, it's not about, you know, being hard or being driven, having grit for real. I mean that stuff's important, but more than anything, it's the social part of being free and before prison I ain't have none of that has zero experience in being a father, being a good partner in a relationship, being a good friend for real.

Remie: 37:18

I mean my dear friendship was all based around gang shit, you know, loyalty, blind loyalty, stuff like that. So now when I'm out here and I think about, like, my priorities, I used to have my priorities rooted around the idea of being hard, being my idea of a man, but none of that exists anymore. I don't know how I got rid of it the way I did, but like I still. You know, when I first came home, I still had my attachment to a certain shit. You know, I went out and bought a blue car. I went out and bought a blue motorcycle with some blue chucks, I know.

Warren: 37:55

I saw that.

Remie: 37:57

You know, that was my life still and even though I say that I ain't a part of this, no more, it was just deep rooted habits. It's like I do anything for my family. Like I'm about to go buy a little beater of a car, like a little 3000, 4000 dollar car, just for the winter, and get to working stuff. I could have wanted to buy a new car. I'm like I don't need no new car. Like I worked five less than five miles away from my home. Like I'm going to put 20 miles a week on this car. Like I'm going to get a beater. You know that's something my ego would not have allowed me to do before. You know, when I go to my kids school recitals or when I, you know, I rode Debbie's motorcycle or her little three wheeler to work, you know, and I was like here, babe, take the car. You know I was like oh right, no, motherfucking three wheeler.

Remie: 38:51

But like none of that ego exists anymore, like I drive around in a pink car if I got to, if it helps my family, you know, and so it's that type of stuff I was actually just talking about this in the last episode is like you know that old saying if you change the way you look at things, the things you look at will start to change Absolutely.

Remie: 39:11

Everything that was important to me before has shifted. You know like I worry more about a career instead of a job. You know the longevity of my family, you know like everything like that. So when I send pictures and stuff, it's not just like, hey, yo, look, you know we doing something. Hey, look, we went somewhere. It's like, hey, look at the type of person I've become, because when you see me go on vacation, you never see me like, hey, look at the car I got. Hey, look, we got bottles out on the beach. You know none of that. It's like, yo, we got this house and I bought 13 people down here to Virginia Beach and rented a house to take my family on vacation.

Warren: 39:53

You know. But it's not just that your poses are different. Like when you first got out, you still kind of had that look at me, see what I am, see these, see how these shoulders fit in this shirt. But now when you take pictures with Debbie, you take pictures with kids, you take dad poses. You know the big chest up, arms around, the one big booming smile, or you and Debbie kind of leaned into each other, like this is intimacy, even everything about you.

Warren: 40:19

It is one time you and I were talking and normally you a fuck shit bitch did that, but I think Ivan was in a room and he was like shoot it, frickin, I'm going to go. You're definitely a dad now, you know, because it's like. It's like you just automatically censor yourself without even knowing you're sensing yourself because it's so natural to you. And now that I'm thinking about a common kind of full circuit of where we were, where we began, I think this time of the year is one of the few times in prison where we excuse the hardness because you don't really see a lot of guys hard at this time of the year.

Warren: 40:59

You know people kind of soften around this time of the year. You don't have to be tough around this time of the year. Even if you see a person being tough like come on, bro, you ain't got to be that tough. I get you with hugs, man. Somebody love you, you know, or you're more willing to. If you see a guy down going to say something, because you know they may be going through something, because you know it's harder at this time of the year.

Warren: 41:19

It's one of the rare times that we allow ourselves to drop, drop our guards and no one is going to fault you for it. Now, january 1st, you got to pick that stuff back up, put your armor back on, because it's on again. But around this time of the year it's like we allow the facade or the steel in another individual to be put down and you can just be you and yeah, you are a dad. This is what you were built for. You know you took this like a duct of water, like even your pictures, the poses that you have in your pictures. It shows a family man. It don't show a gang member. It don't show somebody who's been in prison. It don't show someone who's trying to be tough or trying to keep up an image. It shows that this is what's important to me and this is a genuine smile on my face.

Warren: 42:19

The one video you sent me with Reagan oh, I love that little video where you would like say dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, say warrants. She looked you like all right man, you asking too much. I gave you three, dad, dad. That's all you're going to get. But then those are the things, like you say they show aside of you. That I can appreciate, because we ain't got to be hard on our life. It's too much effort. It's just too much effort to be that hard all the time, to be on guard all the time. There's too much effort.

Remie: 42:57

Well, you know, you remember that notebook. I had the blue notebook. I used to write quotes in.

Warren: 43:03

Mm-hmm.

Remie: 43:03

And the very first one was written in bold. You know play though. You know when people speak ill of you, you got to live so that nobody believes it. So I spoke ill of myself through my actions for the majority of my life and so I got to live so that nobody believed it. So when people see me now, when you see me, when people I never met see me my neighbors, whoever it is and they look at me, they can't see 10 years of prison. They can't see 10 years of a gang prior to that. They can't see. You know that aggressive thirst to only be looking out for me and mine, you know. So I made sure that I found another way, you know, and I want to show other people that way, because I know it's other people who may not be quite where they started, but, like I said, you know we out here in the water by ourselves trying to navigate. So let me show you the way.

Warren: 44:04

One of the things I think that you also done and I've done it, but it's hard to do, especially from this position is to forgive yourself and let go of the shame, like I've learned. I've learned that guilt is necessary. It doesn't always have to be a bad thing, because guilt is simply it can responsibility for a long that you've done to another, but shame doesn't have to be married to that guilt. I think a lot of us put put those two things together. I think I was talking about this in the last episode. But you've learned how to forgive yourself so that you can be something else other than that. But if you kept feeling that shame and guilt, that that thing that you, that person who you was, will be tethered to you. So wherever you go, it goes. Whatever's the people's opinions of that person is carried in and inherited by the new person you are. And I say I've never heard if you speak of your old life with this disdain or shame. You understood that had a purpose to get you where you was able to change it to be the man who you are today. And I've come to that same understanding.

Warren: 45:15

I know a lot of people that I don't regret anything.

Warren: 45:18

I regret a lot Any person that I hurt. I regret that they had to suffer because of my ignorance or because of my fears, or because of the things I didn't understand, or because I wasn't mature enough to do the right thing by them and therefore I did the easy thing. I regret that because no one should have to have felt that from me, but the things that happened in my life I understand that those things helped get me to the point where I lived long enough to be able to change, because I know a lot of people that started off with me that didn't get it, and so I can appreciate that and therefore I have no shame. I have regrets, but I have no shame. And then that's that's that's what I see in you. I see a man who, when you talk, when you live, when you show who you are as an individual, that you can accept everything that your life has been, because everything that you are now showed exactly who you were supposed to be and you lived up to that.

Remie: 46:22

I think that goes back to, like what I said to my sister is, when people bless you, when people invest in you, you know, even if they don't expect anything back, you owe it to them to be better. The same thing goes for everybody that I, you know, fucked over in life, victims of my crimes, victim of my arrogance, whatever it is Like. That loss to them was an investment in me, of growth. I look back on them and I mean, like even you know, I got out of prison in 2018 and 2016,. I found a judicial release motion, even though I knew I wasn't going to get it. Judge already told me she wouldn't give me no early release.

Remie: 46:59

I filed a judicial race motion because it's public record, so all I did in it was apologize to all my victims.

Remie: 47:07

I don't know who they are, I have no way of getting in touch with them, but I'm going to submit this in public court so that this can be said like yo, I feel sorry for my actions.

Remie: 47:17

I know I ain't coming home, but I want everybody to know like when I first went to prison, all I thought was I didn't even hurt nobody, but I ain't shooting nobody, pistol whipping nobody. Do nothing to that they sentenced me like I hurt somebody. At the end of it I started thinking like yo, I probably really fuck somebody's life up with that experience, you know, you know. So I owe it to them to be better than that. I owe it to them because ain't nobody going to remember my face, most likely. But if I run into anybody they should have a sense of security Like man, this dude ain't no threat, this a good guy right here. He probably, if anything, go try to look out for me. So I do that and I use everybody you know the experience of everybody that I ever fucked over as an investment into who I am today. But to me that shows a true sign of remorse.

Warren: 48:06

If you are truly remorseful and you truly regret what you've done. Let your life be an example of that. Yeah, I ain't hanging on it, I ain't like oh, I really fucked everybody over.

Remie: 48:18

Man, I really got to be bad better. You know I can't believe I did that. You know, like it was like an apology, like yo, this is the growth I'm made. I'm sorry that happened. Now I'm a move on. I hope that you can move on in the next few years. I'm gonna move on. I hope that you can move on in a better place and I'm gonna show you through my actions. From now on, I ain't gonna keep apologizing. I ain't gonna keep telling you I'm different. I ain't gonna keep trying to convince you and beg you for your forgiveness, like nah, you're right, I forgave myself. I hope you could forgive me, whoever it is. You know everybody. And then I'm not looking at it unless it's in a positive light.

Warren: 48:57

Because my life is showing you that you will never experience this again from me. I told you I wrote this poem about apology and one day I read it on a podcast. But I said people have apologies backwards. A lot of times people apologize and wish for forgiveness. That's backwards.

Warren: 49:16

You should change your ways first, then apologize, because an apology is saying I want you to forgive me for the things I've done, but if I haven't done anything to correct the behavior, then how could you possibly forgive me for being the same person, which means I'm more likely to do the exact same thing all over again. Change first, do the work first and then ask for an apology. So now the person say OK, now you've shown actions that prove that you were worthy of me forgiving you Not that you deserve it, but you were worthy of having my forgiveness. Because now you understood exactly what you did to me to hurt me in the first place, and now you know what to do not to allow that behavior to happen again. And I think that's what you're living your regret, living your remorse is. It's showing that I fully grasped what I done to you, what I took from you, what I stole from you, and because I understand that. My actions now show you that I will never do that again.

Warren: 50:19

I can tell you what I finally realized what it meant to hurt a woman. Because I got hurt and I knew that this pain wasn't just in a woman's head, it wasn't some fictitious imagined, everything that she was doing to exaggerate her pain and I'm like this stuff is real. I'm like I'll never make another one feel that again because that is unreal. You can't go away from that that stuff is. I don't see how women can just keep going through that over and over again and still be walking around like they're just the happiest person in the world. I couldn't survive that multiple times. That that was. I'm a one and done type person, but once I understood that, I'm like I will never let another person feel that for me again Never.

Remie: 50:59

Oh, I remember what I was going to say, so when I was talking about I don't remember, but anyway so I was talking about changing when you come home and stuff like the way you add things and stuff.

Remie: 51:14

So I actually had this thought, like when I first came home, I still thought like man, I'm toughening my fucking up, I got it hidden, but you better believe like I'm still everything I was. And I just recently it was actually this year, like a month or two ago where I realized like I'm not, I'm really not, you know, like, like you said, like I look like a dad of motherfucking might approach me, like some random man. I'm like you know, I mean like some random ass, mark, because I probably am, you know, and I gotta accept that because that's exactly what I conditioned myself to be.

Warren: 51:54

No, no, no, no, don't get me wrong.

Remie: 51:56

I remember you told Debbie that before I might go in and no, I mean, don't get me wrong, a little bit of it is still in you. I still believe, right, right, you know I don't believe in not crossing invisible lines. That's the thing I always told people I wouldn't, right, I never considered myself a thug, I never considered myself a gangsta, sitting on visible line in front of me and like now, don't cross that, you know right, cuz I'm like moral lines. You know, somebody breaking your house, you sitting here with a gun, shaking a shiver and you, bad, not come closer, like man, I'm a pop out tan and you, like, they got told you not to come in. You know, I don't believe in that line of, oh, I can't harm this person when this person is harm me. But anyway, I said all that to say I was watching this.

Remie: 52:37

I was watching this video and it was like these teenagers, man like 14, 13 and don't even run. I thought that I was cold, motherfucking when I was about you know, 15, 16, really couldn't tell me shit. I should tell people that was in they 30s, like man, you in my way, that's for real. And I looked at these young, you know, younger than what I thought I was at my prime. You know, they was 13, 12, you know stuff like this and he's my fucks pulling out special ops, military grade shit Pistols with my fucking 50 round drums on it, shit. I'm like whoa.

Remie: 53:19

And then they got to talking about, like you know, some of the stuff. You know the hood politics that was going on and it was like they name like five dudes that was just from they circle of friends, like all he doing 12 years for robbery. He doing you know multiple life sentences for murder. He was with him on the murder. This dude clapped back from the other neighborhood because of that murder. So now he doing and he was killed, probably for retaliation for that. I'm like man, he's motherfuckers. They ain't even really got hair on a nuts yet.

Warren: 53:55

They all talk about murders.

Remie: 54:00

Multiple bodies, shootouts in broad daylight. You know, if man, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna be honest I ain't ready for, because I at least had a little bit of sense, you know you had to do something wrong to me for me to fuck around and take it, you know, but these motherfuckers is just nuts.

Warren: 54:20

Yeah and I'm like well, I said that, like even now, I've been in this and grafted, which is one of the safest prisons in the state of Ohio, probably the country for 17 years and I think that the mentality that I had when I was in the OSP's, when I was in the Lebanon's, when I was in the Trimbles, and I can't go back there right now- they eat me alive.

Warren: 54:46

I ain't built for it anymore. There's a you have to not care to make it in those institutions. They have to be a part of you that has to turn off, because it's not so much that you would do the violence, but it's always around you. It's like a presence that's on you that you, you, you would constantly have to be aware that one day it may visit you and you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to respond. Here I walk around the flip-flops and have my radio so loud I don't hear anything. People got a tap me on the shoulder to say if they want me. That's a mentality I would have never had there. But this place is.

Warren: 55:22

I'm so conditioned now that that I don't even think like I'm tough. I'm like you. Listen, I ain't been in a fight in so long. I'm happy. My knuckles was nice and soft. You know it's like I don't. I don't have the idea of the mentality that I need to protect myself in a physical manner right now. I mean, I hear these young guys that the only can't they bitty and they're like oh man, it's can't be soft and this and this. I'm like you should be happy that this can't be soft. Yeah, because you would not be one of the predators.

Remie: 55:53

I mean at all. It makes it so they don't have to undo all of that before you go home. Like I tell people all the time like man, I thought I was tough, I thought I was like For real, on the, on the sense of like trying to forgive yourself. I look back and thought like damn, I was a fucked up person. Then I got the prison and I was like it's a different level of shit that I gotta start doing in order to be comfortable, not to survive, because you could survive off less, but to be comfortable, right, feeling like ain't nobody gonna fuck with me.

Remie: 56:24

Like you know, on the street, before with the prison, I never would have thought of fighting butt naked in the shower. Yeah, I never would have thought of beating somebody up while they was taking a shit. Yeah, you know, I never would have thought, like you know, baby oil and sugar cubes in the, in the Microwave and I'm like this is the extent that you had to be willing to go to when you was at a level three, level four prison. You know, like making a shame.

Warren: 56:52

You can't sit a certain way, which are back to the doors or certain people standing behind you that you're uncomfortable with, that. There's just certain things that you are hyper aware of in those higher security camps or prisons, as opposed to like rafting. Yeah, you don't even have to worry about most things like these guys. That's what you these guys get in the fight and they don't even show a mark when they face.

Remie: 57:15

Yeah, they all sweating and they done nothing but talk. Why they heard?

Warren: 57:19

they just worked out. That's all they did.

Remie: 57:21

But, like, at the same time, we had the whole sentence ahead of us. We had none to lose, yeah. So yeah, I'm not by gaining that security then to lose by doing that, yeah. So, like I said, now that I'm out here, it's like you know, I got way too much shit to lose. We fucking around with you which one? This necklace won't just fall what you want, bro, because I know you just might be too stupid to see the situation. You and I'm gonna give it to you. I'll let you go, whatever it is, you know. But, um, all I can hope is that by reaching back in there, especially around this time of year, but really throughout the whole thing, I respect and I talk to you a lot, I'll talk to wise a lot. I hope that y'all take that and disseminate it through the rest of the society in there and let dudes know Absolutely, you know a like it ain't by me touching your life. You could touch somebody else's life in there.

Warren: 58:17

But that's what I do, you know. I mean I'm Coming, I told you I'm an enormous see block. They just elevated me up to one of the four Liaisons and the block which is I am the go between, between the residents here and the staff About the things that we want, how we're gonna make this block better, how can we Continue with this normalcy movement that's going on to Ohio, because this is the very first one in the state of Ohio, and the more this improves, the more they can start putting these units in, all this, all the prisons without Ohio, and it's to kind of give you back the sense of humanity, like I say, we have. We have the couches, we have the Come bed comforters, we have the electric toothbrushes and everything like that and that.

Warren: 59:01

And to a person out there in Society, they may not think that's a lot, but coming to this block and then going to the other blocks, is you could? You could start seeing a mind change and individuals to stop thinking that they're giving you a privilege. This is what you are supposed to have anyway. Then I did I give you anything other than you were supposed to have, and a lot of us be so conditioned. We become so conditioned to think that that's what we present makes you have a beggar mentality, because you have to ask for everything in here. But even basic rights, basic dignities, basic decencies, you have to ask for so much that when they're given to you, you like, thank you, thank you, thank you. I appreciate that.

Warren: 59:48

And with this block teaches you is that, as a citizen, this is what you're supposed to have, but there's a responsibility that comes with it. These are the things that you're supposed to be afforded to you, but there's also an accountability that comes with it. For the things in which you do right, then you get the reward, but for the things that you do wrong, the same law applies. You have to pay a consequence. And, and the more we develop this block, the more we get community partners, the more we start to return in a normal See back to the way of thinking, then that transition from here to out there will not be as difficult.

Warren: 1:00:24

But this is the only one in the state of Ohio. How has what? 28 prison? This the only one year, and so it's incumbent upon us to make sure that this succeed, so that this can be in every single prison around the state of Ohio. Yeah, I want to hold. The whole prison system will become this, and this would not become a place of Institutionalization. It will be a place of a corrections which it was was supposed to be.

Remie: 1:00:48

I want to be a part of that. Who run in that?

Warren: 1:00:50

Yeah, definitely be a become a part of it. What are the? What are the next events that we have for family? I'll invite you come on in see how everything is. I'll let you up, talk to him and then you can get involved however you want to get involved with.

Remie: 1:01:04

Yeah, for sure.

Warren: 1:01:07

The time that it's bringer summertime, our next Workshop event.

Remie: 1:01:14

Yeah.

Warren: 1:01:15

Yeah, but it's. It's what. Do you remember how these it is. It's gonna completely blow your mind when you come here and see this place. We've had we just recently had a tour of all wardens from all over the country and a couple of them from Europe. Come over here because it's modeled after the Norway. If you ever, or you or your listeners, want to look up what normally is that they started over in Norway and how their prisoners in this, our prisons, this block is trying to get that. It won't get to that degree, but it's trying to get as close to it as possible and they know. They came over here and it was like we've only been doing this for 18 months and they were like the things that job done there right now is completely amazing. We don't even we can do it in our prison, but we want to take elements out. But part of it is a governing system, to where we govern ourselves.

Warren: 1:02:03

They're just here because this is part of you have one minute remaining, but, yeah, it's a change this mentality of you're an inmate and understand you're just an incarcerated person, person locked up, that's it. It doesn't change your humanity or your, your, your rights as a human being, it just means you're locked up. Now develop your behavior, develop your character and be a better person.

Remie: 1:02:30

I wonder, I wonder if they could do that and um and like higher security prison.

Warren: 1:02:35

Probably not. They have to isolate you. This is an isolated block. Oh, okay, okay, listen, bro. I love you man. Thank you for putting the money on the phone. I love Christine, no, and I can't wait to see you next week.

Remie: 1:02:48

All right, man, See you soon. Well, love you too. Man, Be safe bro.

DJ: 1:02:57

The lockdown to legacy podcast is proud to be a part of the bus sprout podcast community network. Lockdown to legacy is recorded at co-hatch in their lovely audiophile room. Thanks for your scholarship. Audio engineering is done by our very own remy jones. You can reach us with any feedback, questions, comments or share the love by emailing stories at lockdown, the number two Legacycom, stories at lockdown to legacycom. You can reach out there too for a free sticker, and you can find us on instagram and twitter With the handle at lockdown to legacy and on facebook at the lockdown to legacy podcast. Thanks for listening you.